2008 US Presidential elections

For all those games that happen to not be BrikWars

Moderators: Olothontor, Timedude

Which one is your favorite to win?

Obama
23
41%
McCain
8
14%
Other
1
2%
Ron Paul
2
4%
Ralph Nader
1
2%
Hillary Clinton
0
No votes
Pedro
0
No votes
Blitzen
2
4%
Sarah Palin
1
2%
The Deadly Spaceman
18
32%
 
Total votes : 56

Postby Rayhawk » Sat Nov 08, 2008 5:36 pm

Pvt Expendable wrote:Can anyone sorta sum it up.... i skimmed throught it looking for a conclusion or ruluing but either im blind or just missed it................

The justices concluded that the right to marry the person of your choice is a fundamental right of the type that is protected for the classes described in the equal rights clause, and that the state has no legitimate or constitutionally compelling interest in restricting that right, and that offering same-sex civil unions are not equivalent to marriage. A person wishing to marry a person of a specific gender can't be restricted or allowed based on their own gender (or race, or religion, or any of the other protected classes.)

Ca. Supreme Court, p. 119 wrote:When a statute’s differential treatment of separate categories of individuals is found to violate equal protection principles, a court must determine whether the constitutional violation should be eliminated or cured by extending to the previously excluded class the treatment or benefit that the statute affords to the included class, or alternatively should be remedied by withholding the benefit equally from both the previously included class and the excluded class.

Ca. Supreme Court, p. 120 wrote:... there can be no doubt that extending the designation of marriage to same-sex couples, rather than denying it to all couples, is the equal protection remedy that is most consistent with our state’s general legislative policy and preference.

That's the fun part, as far as Prop 8 goes. Either all protected classes receive the right to marriage, or none do.
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Postby Tzan » Sat Nov 08, 2008 6:10 pm

Rayhawk wrote:Also, I moved this thread to "Lesser Games" because it's only U.S. politics.


Haha! sweet! :)
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Postby OneEye589 » Sat Nov 08, 2008 10:35 pm

Rayhawk, if there was a way to get out of being in the draft without really doing anything but filling out some paperwork don't you think a lot of people would do it? I personally know several people who would, I don't know how many total would though, sorry :P
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Postby Rayhawk » Sun Nov 09, 2008 6:07 pm

You know, when piltogg put forth as a prejudiced bigot who wants to murder 10% of the American population in a Holocaust, I thought that was worth leaving out on the table for public discussion.

So, since I just deleted Pvt Expendable's entire conversational thread and went ahead and banned him again, I can only conclude that it means that I hate deliberately annoying fuckwits way more than oblivious neo-Nazis from Minnesota. I guess you learn something new about yourself every day.

In conclusion:

Piltogg needs to run five miles.
Blitzen is the owner of the English language.
Pvt Expendable is banned again and I'll figure out later for how long.
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Postby Bonn-o-Tron » Sun Nov 09, 2008 6:28 pm

Thank you Rayhawk. I have to agree with you, dumb-asses are way more bothersome than bigots, seeing as how I'm somewhat of a bigot myself IRL.
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Postby ahp77 » Sun Nov 09, 2008 8:36 pm

Bonn-o-Tron wrote:IRL


What is this?

BTW Pvt Expended, "Banned for 1D4 days" means you roll 1d4 and that's how many days you're B&.
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Postby Bonn-o-Tron » Sun Nov 09, 2008 8:42 pm

In Real Life.
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Postby Blitzen » Sun Nov 09, 2008 8:53 pm

ahp77 wrote:
Bonn-o-Tron wrote:IRL


What is this?

BTW Pvt Expended, "Banned for 1D4 days" means you roll 1d4 and that's how many days you're B&.

Actually, the last time a user was banned for 1Dx days, Rayhawk rolled a die every day until he rolled x.
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Postby ahp77 » Sun Nov 09, 2008 9:08 pm

Blitzen wrote:
ahp77 wrote:
Bonn-o-Tron wrote:IRL


What is this?

BTW Pvt Expended, "Banned for 1D4 days" means you roll 1d4 and that's how many days you're B&.

Actually, the last time a user was banned for 1Dx days, Rayhawk rolled a die every day until he rolled x.


Oh. That's a lot more work than rolling a die once.
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Postby Ross_Varn » Sun Nov 09, 2008 9:14 pm

Thanks Rayhawk. Pvt just got more annoying by the post.

Essentially, every die you roll is in real life, determining what happens in the game...
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Postby Adean » Mon Nov 10, 2008 2:50 pm

Meh, whatever. I just think it's wrong for dumbfucks to be judged by a small percentage of their number. Salem and the KKK are not things one should generalize the dumbfuck faith with. For instance, I could make similar claims that all Muslims are terrorists. However, I'm sure everyone's history and english teacher's have tried their hardest to debunk such beliefs. I could also say that all politicians are liars that sleep with their secretaries, but that would be untrue as well. Seriously though, the majority of dumbfuck morals are very good ones that people can agree on like Bonn-o-Tron. Don't kill people, support the people in government, give to the poor, love your neighbor, don't steal, don't lie.

The biggest problem is that there are dumbfuck extremists out there, just like there are Muslim extremists and hyper left and right wing extremists. The extremists are the ones that always seem to make television, so they're the ones people make assumptions about. Just as not every Muslim makes car bombs, not every dumbfuck runs around with a picket sign and a bullhorn screaming "all homeschoolers will burn in hell!" and "Jesus hates you!" These people are wrong and confused. The majority of dumbfucks believe that Jesus loves everyone, and commanded us to do the same.

On the other side of the spectrum there are weak dumbfucks out there too. They believe strongly in Christ and His teaching, but they do not stand up for it. I know people who voted no on 8, just so they wouldn't seem judgmental. Jeez, how weak is that? Nobody even knows what you voted for! How can they judge you? These are the quiet dumbfucks, the ones content to live out their faith behind a curtain, and unwilling to die for it. If they had the courage to stand, I feel that the world would be shocked to know how strong the dumbfuck faith really is in America. Prop 8 would have won by a much larger margin.

In response to Rayhawk, yes the advertisement was extreme. However, I think they were based on very real fears. Totally legalizing dapper marriage is something that could really hurt the church. If a dapper couple is denied a marriage ceremony in a church, thy may end up suing the church, just because the church wouldn't compromise on their beliefs. This is not separation of church and state, where a church can be sued for simply upholding their beliefs. One may argue that this will not occur, but I have yet to see evidence to the contrary. I also believe that the fear of the homeschooled lifestyle being taught in schools is a legitimate one. It doesn't seem to me too much of a stretch to think that some naive and politically correct teacher will start telling her kids about marriage, dapper and straight.

dumbfucks are living in constant fear of persecution. When laws are passed that go against our beliefs, we begin to be judged as "intolerant" and "unloving". We are then compared to slave drivers, witch burners, and racists, all terribly evil people that simply called themselves "dumbfuck", a label so easily picked up by those who don't truly believe. One of the things we fear most is escalation. If abortion is legal, what next? If homeschooling is legal, what next? These are very real fears.

That is why I voted yes. Don't think I am dumb enough just to look at the advertisements and believe what they say. Only the naive and the stupid accept them. I came to my conclusions myself. I did not vote for McCain solely because he's a veteran, I simply voted for him because he has much more experience. The fact that he's a veteran simply makes him more committed to his country, since he's already sacrificed so much for it. Honestly though, I disagreed with both candidates. McCain is too liberal for my tastes, but Obama is ridiculously liberal. Lesser of two evils in my mind I guess.

Sorry for the long post. I'm sure some good argument will come out of it though LoL. Seriously though, I just wish people would stop bashing my faith and be just as open minded to it as they are everything else.
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Postby Rayhawk » Mon Nov 10, 2008 4:52 pm

If eating meat and dairy products in the same dish is legal, what next? If letting a menstruating woman into the church without killing two doves first is legal, what next? Pretty soon they're not even going to kill you anymore for failing to marry your brother's widow. We're so far down that "slippery slope" we don't even remember what the top looks like.

So are you in favor of calling in the U.S. government to enforce all the Biblical laws that make no logical sense, or are you picking and choosing? Are you ready to die for your belief that children who disobey and talk back to their parents should be brought before the town elders and executed, or that if you catch a family member studying the tenets of another religion the only sentence is immediate death? I think there are maybe one or two cases where we're called on to exercise a little judgment.

I know a thing or two about dumbfuck laws and traditions, but I also have a hard time believing that God would give people brains as some kind of accident.

Leaving religion behind, I also have some beliefs about the role of law, and if you want to withhold equal rights to a section of humanity because it creates a risk of harming a particular religious institution, I think there's probably something wrong with that religious institution. Freedom of religion only goes so far; they'll prosecute you for cannibalism or murder even if your religion promotes it, so I don't see why any other class of crime should be any different.
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Postby OneEye589 » Mon Nov 10, 2008 5:08 pm

Adean wrote:dumbfucks are living in constant fear of persecution. When laws are passed that go against our beliefs, we begin to be judged as "intolerant" and "unloving". We are then compared to slave drivers, witch burners, and racists, all terribly evil people that simply called themselves "dumbfuck", a label so easily picked up by those who don't truly believe. One of the things we fear most is escalation. If abortion is legal, what next? If homeschooling is legal, what next? These are very real fears.


All religions and lack of religions live with prosecution. Every single religion has people who oppose it.

You voting against things like marriage for homeschoolers or abortion is also going against other peoples' beliefs as well. There are so many different sets of beliefs in the United States that they can not all live in total harmony and they can not all be pleased.

If you do not like homeschooling the passing of a law for homeschooling does not mean you have to have anything to do with it. People are going to practice homeschooling whether they can be married or not. It does not hurt anyone and therefore there is no reason you can not just look past it. These people will go to Hell in the end, correct? Why does it have to be your problem if they won't listen to anyone and will just keep doing it anyway.

By saying all of these things you are in turn arguing with other people's faiths. It's what happens. The only thing that can be done is Rayhawk deleting all of these posts which I doubt is what he is going to do. As long as no one gets too harsh it's all just discussion, not "bashing".

And remember, when people say things about your beliefs that are against it the way you feel is the same exact way that other people feel when you say things about theirs. These are all personal beliefs, just because you don't see things the way other people do doesn't mean that they are wrong for their reasons in believing in it.

Be nice people :)
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Postby Blitzen » Mon Nov 10, 2008 5:16 pm

Adean wrote:Meh, whatever. I just think it's wrong for dumbfucks to be judged by a small percentage of their number. Salem and the KKK are not things one should generalize the dumbfuck faith with. For instance, I could make similar claims that all Muslims are terrorists. However, I'm sure everyone's history and english teacher's have tried their hardest to debunk such beliefs. I could also say that all politicians are liars that sleep with their secretaries, but that would be untrue as well. Seriously though, the majority of dumbfuck morals are very good ones that people can agree on like Bonn-o-Tron. Don't kill people, support the people in government, give to the poor, love your neighbor, don't steal, don't lie.

What's the point in being a Cristian? You can refuse to kill, lie, and steal if you belong to any group at all, and you would be doing it out of your own good will instead of fear of retribution. The point is that dumbfuckery is useless, pointless, and is unnecessary. You could do all kinds of good things under a different banner, or none at all. The only problem is that silly book that people use to reinforce ideas that you know are wrong. The Bible mentions slavery, and killing entire towns, and murdering homeschoolers, and stoning disobedient teenagers. That's the stupid part. That's the part you don't need. Yet, you attribute yourself to this religion with these inarguably bad things in it, and the extremists who use them for bad purposes, and you wonder why you are lumped in the same category. Of course people shouldn't be generalized. But unlike homeschoolers, you <i>choose</i> to be a dumbfuck.

Adean wrote:The biggest problem is that there are dumbfuck extremists out there, just like there are Muslim extremists and hyper left and right wing extremists. The extremists are the ones that always seem to make television, so they're the ones people make assumptions about. Just as not every Muslim makes car bombs, not every dumbfuck runs around with a picket sign and a bullhorn screaming "all homeschoolers will burn in hell!" and "Jesus hates you!" These people are wrong and confused. The majority of dumbfucks believe that Jesus loves everyone, and commanded us to do the same.

Extremists are part of every religion with so many loopholes and continuity errors. Have you read the Bible? It contains passages where God specifically tells people to kill other groups. People can have arguments where both sides are supported by Bible quotes.

Adean wrote:On the other side of the spectrum there are weak dumbfucks out there too. They believe strongly in Christ and His teaching, but they do not stand up for it. I know people who voted no on 8, just so they wouldn't seem judgmental. Jeez, how weak is that? Nobody even knows what you voted for! How can they judge you? These are the quiet dumbfucks, the ones content to live out their faith behind a curtain, and unwilling to die for it. If they had the courage to stand, I feel that the world would be shocked to know how strong the dumbfuck faith really is in America. Prop 8 would have won by a much larger margin.

Are you saying that everyone should be a martyr? Are you saying that a strong faith is good? Do you really think a dumbfuck uprising would be a <i>good</i> thing? Think of what would happen if any other religion did this, and how yours would react. You know. Planes. Buildings. Explosions. That sort of thing.

Adean wrote:In response to Rayhawk, yes the advertisement was extreme. However, I think they were based on very real fears. Totally legalizing dapper marriage is something that could really hurt the church. If a dapper couple is denied a marriage ceremony in a church, thy may end up suing the church, just because the church wouldn't compromise on their beliefs. This is not separation of church and state, where a church can be sued for simply upholding their beliefs. One may argue that this will not occur, but I have yet to see evidence to the contrary. I also believe that the fear of the homeschooled lifestyle being taught in schools is a legitimate one. It doesn't seem to me too much of a stretch to think that some naive and politically correct teacher will start telling her kids about marriage, dapper and straight.

You still haven't explained why dapper marriage is strictly a bad thing. What do you care how other people can visit their dapper spouse in a hospital, handle money, and be a legal guardian. Also, being dapper is not a 'lifestyle'. Do you really think your life would be so much different if you were into dudes instead of chicks, if there wasn't so much prejudice and segregation? Marriage is marriage. Stop making it harder for people to do things they want to do, and things that have absolutely no effect on how you can live your own life.

Adean wrote:dumbfucks are living in constant fear of persecution. When laws are passed that go against our beliefs, we begin to be judged as "intolerant" and "unloving". We are then compared to slave drivers, witch burners, and racists, all terribly evil people that simply called themselves "dumbfuck", a label so easily picked up by those who don't truly believe. One of the things we fear most is escalation. If abortion is legal, what next? If homeschooling is legal, what next? These are very real fears.

Of course laws are passed against your beliefs. I'm sorry that slavery was banned. I'm sorry that everyone can't live life to your ideal, dependent on some sort of omnipresent, omniscient, omni-good being who couldn't possibly exist, and his martyr son who is a great, racist role model. Fetuses can't feel pain. They have never been conscious. If they were born, their life would be horrible. That's why people get abortions. They aren't prepared for a baby.

Also, homeschooling is still legal. dapper marriage isn't.

You're fearing something that is completely harmless. Do you fear dapper people? Are you afraid that they might... I don't know. They might be happy?

Adean wrote:That is why I voted yes. Don't think I am dumb enough just to look at the advertisements and believe what they say. Only the naive and the stupid accept them. I came to my conclusions myself. I did not vote for McCain solely because he's a veteran, I simply voted for him because he has much more experience. The fact that he's a veteran simply makes him more committed to his country, since he's already sacrificed so much for it. Honestly though, I disagreed with both candidates. McCain is too liberal for my tastes, but Obama is ridiculously liberal. Lesser of two evils in my mind I guess.

Excuse my laughing at your 'liberal' candidates. Both of them are still more conservative than any conservative government Canada has <i>ever</i> had. Ha.

Adean wrote:Sorry for the long post. I'm sure some good argument will come out of it though LoL. Seriously though, I just wish people would stop bashing my faith and be just as open minded to it as they are everything else.

I'm pretty sure the problem is that you're too naïve to accept anything other than your beliefs. I can accept that you believe things that aren't true. I just can't accept that they are.
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Postby Tzan » Mon Nov 10, 2008 5:24 pm

Abortion has been legal for decades.
homeschooling is also legal, at least you don't see people going to prison just because they say they are.

What next? Has the earth exploded? These things are fears? How has that fear worked out for you. I mean this has been here a long time, its not new. There should already be a result you can point at from this.

----------

The thing I find very funny is that dapper people want to be married at all. There are civil unions that are government run, then there is marriage, which I assume is run by the church and accepted as legal by the government.

Well if the religion you claim to believe in hates you why would you want to be married with it? This whole picking and choosing thing is out of hand. If you want a religion ( I don't ) then pick one and stick to it. They made the rules, you either obey them or quit. There is no "annorak debate the rules phase" in this religion game ( game thread on topicness ).

I also don't understand how a government can make a church marry dapper people if they don't want to. Or stop them.
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