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Postby spacessj » Sat May 10, 2008 8:30 am

LoL the description of a cruiser in the manual :D
Why are there no cap ships artificial planetesque things
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Postby Boomer » Sat May 10, 2008 12:49 pm

spacessj wrote:LoL the description of a cruiser in the manual :D
Why are there no cap ships artificial planetesque things


Wha? It fits the description of a modern (Key word, modern) naval cruiser.

Not sure i understand your question though. You mean, why are there no ships that are several thousand kilometers across?
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Postby spacessj » Sat May 10, 2008 1:13 pm

yep that's what i meant. Like in titan AE. Also didn't know that cap ship=cruiser
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Postby IVhorseman » Sat May 10, 2008 9:19 pm

but they are! The speed of light as a velocity is physically unobtainable by any form of matter. Faster than that is impossible. Vanguard uses FTL drives to go faster than the speed of light, meaning that laws of physics are broken. Three dimensional objects cannot exist in nth dimensional space because any object in the nth dimension has n dimensions. this is the same reason why no actual physical object can be two dimensional. that said, no object from this dimension could travel through other dimensions because it'd be physically impossible for it to exist in that dimension.

and who said anything about taking these off the boards? i LIKE arguing semantics.
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Postby Rayhawk » Sat May 10, 2008 11:27 pm

That's not true, objects can move faster than the speed of light. They just can't approach the speed of light from either side.
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Postby IVhorseman » Sat May 10, 2008 11:59 pm

Hm. I instantly assumed this was just trying to fuel a "LOLZ INTERNET FIGHT" with lies, but Wikipedia's telling me that Tachyons are theoretical particles that would travel at superluminal speeds (That's FTL, buddy). Looks like we don't need dimensional shifts or curving space-time after all!

the whole article's a massive Teal Deer, but it looks like it's impossible to shift particles from regular what-we're-used-to matter to Tachyons, since the energy required to speed a particle up to the speed of light c is infinite, as well as the amount of energy required to slow down a Tachyon to c. if you want a graph of this, plot a graph of |1/x|+c, where X is speed and Y is amount of energy required.

so now the only problem i'm seeing is the whole dimensional-connection thing, but as can be seen above, i've been wrong before, and could very well be wrong again. hooray science!
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Postby spacessj » Sun May 11, 2008 5:26 am

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Postby Boomer » Sun May 11, 2008 8:27 am

Well, like I was trying to say ( and very glad this is a discussion and not a thinly veiled attempt to piss me off) FTL in the game is a terrible misnomer, since it is only "apparent FTL" the way they describe it.

And there is no need to argue semantics. Whether you talk about bending space time or traveling along another dimension... you say the same thing. I like jump point based drives.

Tachyons, cannot travel slower then light, if they exist. How do you utilize them? Make a ship out of tachyons? How do you board the thing?

Could probably use tachyons for FTL radio, most likely.

Alcubierre drive, while a fun concept, requires so much energy that in the end you'd have a ship the 1 AU across scooping up suns as it travels, devouring at least a sun an hour just to keep going. That's... no, not even going to bother.

In the end, a simple trick of multi-dimensional physics is the best bet. While unlikely, it has not been disproven and is kosher for hard science fiction.
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Postby Olothontor » Sun May 11, 2008 10:26 am

...Gods I hate math... alright, I'll get back to you on those problems. And I'll be quick about it this time!
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Postby IVhorseman » Sun May 11, 2008 10:26 am

Issac Asimov had a sci fi story where FTL was achieved by converting regular matter into Tachyons, and then converting back. what i find interesting from this is that tachyons require VERY low energy to keep up a high speed. in fact, the same amount of energy would be required to go 30mph as would... whatever the equivalent FTL velocity of a tachyon would be.

multi-dimensional physics is an interesting concept, but how would one possibly go through a dimension if 3 dimensional objects can't exist in the nth dimension? it's impossible to have a two, one, or no dimensional object in this dimension because everything has at least SOME width and height, even if only an atom wide/tall. nothing one, two or zero dimensional can exist in known space, so how could a three dimensional object connect two points on a different dimensional plane?
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Postby Boomer » Sun May 11, 2008 2:56 pm

IVhorseman wrote:Issac Asimov had a sci fi story where FTL was achieved by converting regular matter into Tachyons, and then converting back. what i find interesting from this is that tachyons require VERY low energy to keep up a high speed. in fact, the same amount of energy would be required to go 30mph as would... whatever the equivalent FTL velocity of a tachyon would be.

multi-dimensional physics is an interesting concept, but how would one possibly go through a dimension if 3 dimensional objects can't exist in the nth dimension? it's impossible to have a two, one, or no dimensional object in this dimension because everything has at least SOME width and height, even if only an atom wide/tall. nothing one, two or zero dimensional can exist in known space, so how could a three dimensional object connect two points on a different dimensional plane?


Technically, all matter already exists in all dimensions. Gravity is also a function of matter creating a depression in 3 dimensional space along a 4th spacial dimension.

There has yet to be an observed limit on the multi-dimensional functions of matter. It is not far fetched to assume a mechanical function allowing a 3 dimensional ship to travel along dimensions aside from it's own while maintaining it's own dimensions through the entire trip.

While this does not break any known laws of physics, that also in no way implies it has been discovered to be possible either. It's just not impossible yet. No limit has told us it can't, while at the same time we have yet to see how it can happen.
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Postby IVhorseman » Sun May 11, 2008 4:02 pm

Boomer wrote:It's just not impossible yet.


lolwtf.
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Postby Matt » Sun May 11, 2008 9:29 pm

Ok guys slow down, this conversation is giving me a headache and is rather pointless. so untill someone achives the speed of light then we won't really know now will we? (curls up in cornner waiting to be shot down)
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Postby IVhorseman » Sun May 11, 2008 10:32 pm

no, but we know how it WON'T work.
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Postby Boomer » Mon May 12, 2008 8:45 am

IVhorseman wrote:no, but we know how it WON'T work.


NOW you're thinking.

The point is, you cannot call something impossible just because nobody knows if it is possible yet. That's like saying "Man will never fly." Or "The sound barrier cannot be broken." No serious scientist ever said these things. No serious scientist will tell you only the current 3 dimensions exist, or what the entire consequences are for the others. Good science is about admitting to what you don't know yet and then trying it out.

Accelerating matter to the speed of light is impossible. We all should agree. But as has been agreed since the days of Einstein, hyperspace is just a matter of finding some way to work the stuff, and we know we have not tried everything yet. Some of the experiments lined up for the LHC may very well prove my ideas wrong. Might prove yours wrong. Most likely won't even touch on either of our ideas and we have to wait 20 years for the next higher order accelerator to give it a go.

Or I might get my wish and it WILL destroy the universe... then I don't have to worry anymore. Just so long as it doesn't open a portal for hostile aliens and give me ANOTHER set of forms to fill out, I'll be happy. Writing in the Migo buzzing language with my own blood would just be the frosting of bureaucracy, wouldn't it?
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