Idea for an MMO-esque forum game, brainstorming welcome

For all those games that happen to not be BrikWars

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Postby 501stCadians » Tue Jul 05, 2011 11:35 pm

You should also have events, such as rampagin Goblin Warbands, ents, and such.
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Postby Arkbrik » Wed Jul 06, 2011 2:17 am

@kerlc

Thanks... I guess?

@Rody

Backgorund for the game could be "A hidden island/valley has been discovered, and now adventurers and pioneers are coming to seek their fortune", or something like that.

Dwarf Fortress makes nice maps, but it might be hard to put into a hex system.

@Olothontor

Well, a real life skilled lumberjack doesn't screw up one out of six times, so autosuccess for this type of thing is pretty realistic. But I agree that the costs for building houses could be higher. Maybe 5 or even 10 logs per room?

@thade

Yup it's free, it can be found here.

@Ross_Varn

Wow, lots of good stuff.

The skills Noble [town relations] and Shopkeeper [selling bonus] got me thinking that this kind of social skills might be hard to use in game, since you are interacting only with other PCs, not NPCs. You shouldn't be able to force another town to ally you just by rolling a die, you should have to convince them that it would be beneficial to them. Shopkeepers are free to put whatever price they want on their goods, it's up to the other PCs if they want to pay.

Legendary monsters sound sweet. Maybe they show up instead of a regular monster when a region with a certain number of inhabitants is attacked?

Combat. Since a combat usually lasts no more than a few minutes (as opposed to woodcutting which can take hours) fighting should be a free action. I was thinking of doing turn-by-turn fighting until one side is defeated (or decides to flee, players could specify "run away if reduced to 3 HP").

To attack you make a skill roll with your weapon, then the opponent tries to dodge, then you roll for damage, which is reduced by the opponent's armor. Example:

Miles
12 HP
Swordsman +2
Iron sword (1d6 damage)

Orc
10 HP
Axeman +1
Iron axe (1d6 damage)
Shoddy iron armor (Armor value 1)

Miles attacks Orc: 3+2=5: +1 Hit
Orc dodges: 2: Fail
Orc takes 4+1-1=4 damage: 6 HP left
Orc attacks Miles: 5+1=6: +2 Hit
Miles dodges: 5: -3 damage
Miles takes 4+2-3=3 damage: 9 HP left
Miles attacks Orc: 6+2=8: +4 Hit
Orc dodges: 3: -1 damage
Orc takes 5+4-1-1=7 damage: 0 HP left
Orc is killed!

For wepons, maybe unarmed combat does 1d3 damage, random objects 1d4, iron weapons 1d6, and steel weapons 1d8? Ranged weapons would do 1d6 damage at range and 1d4 up close.

Permadeath sounds like a realistic options, but you could let the player keep part of the XP from their old character, and carry it over to the new character. We'll need XP rules of course. How about gaining 1 XP every time you roll a natural 6, and when you have 5 XP you can increase one of your skills or your HP?

The map's region information can be handled by Cinnamon Rolls, as long as every region has a name or number. Seeing towns pop up on the map would be nice though.

@Ogel96

Everyone are welcome.

@501st Cadians

We have the random monster attacks, but do you have other ideas?
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Postby 501stCadians » Wed Jul 06, 2011 9:17 am

Well, for events, what if players could find relics, tresaure, ect? For example they are travelling through the woods when they find some ruins, and they see a treasure chest within.

As for events, you should also have more passive events, such as a town harvesting crops or a tournament/festival at a city. That's off the top of my head.
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Postby Ross_Varn » Wed Jul 06, 2011 11:19 pm

The combat system sounds good, it looks playable. Combat would, like you said, have to start and finish in one turn.

What if we were playing multiple, about three, characters? That would lead to having healthy towns and parties of people that could back each other up, instead of having a few wandering madmen attempting to heckle each other into joining their group... Also, it would end up keeping interest on the game, since there would be multiple stories that people could create.

As for houses, and wood, do you really want to track all those rooms individually in a town screen, especially late game when you have large towns? What if we had a specific building list? I.E, based on the original rooms list...

Bedroom: Bed (1 log)
Throne room: Throne (1 log)
Shop: Desk (1 log)
Mill: Millstone (1 stone)
Bakery: Oven (1 stone)
Smelter: Furnace (1 stone)
Forge: Furnace (1 stone)
Coal furnace: Furnace (1 stone)


We could make specific buildings that cost a lot of resources to construct, and level up. The base cost to build something would be 5 wood, plus 5 stone/wood for each relevant item. The items that make the rooms would have to be crafted first with the relevant skill, leading to guys that have the skills making money for working.

House: Bed (10 logs)
Shop: Desk (10 logs)
Mansion: Bed, Desk, Throne (15 logs, 5 stone)
Mill: Millstone (5 logs, 5 stone)
Bakery: Oven, Desk (10 logs, 5 stone)
Baker's Shop: Millstone, Oven, Desk, Bed (15 logs, 10 stone)
Smithy's: Furnace, Desk (10 logs, 5 stone)
Warehouse: (5 wood)


Also, buildings could be created from scratch by combining any of the items. By getting the GM to approve an additional room item, original buildings could be constructed.

Pub: Desk, Still, Bedroom (20 logs)
Guardhouse: Cell (5 logs, 5 stone)
Dark Tower: Bed, Magic Altar (10 logs, 5 stone)

Specific defensive structure would be based on stone instead of wood, the costs being doubled. They would give bonuses to defensive combat in a town.

Walls (10 wood) +1
Stone Walls (10 stone) +2
Tower (10 stone) +2
Castle (20 stone) +5

I dunno about resource gathering though... hmm.
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Postby Rody » Thu Jul 07, 2011 6:27 am

I suppose some resource gathering could be included, though in my opinion, leveling gathering skills and gathering enough can quickly become a chore a grind, and that should be avoided.
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Postby knolli » Thu Jul 07, 2011 7:28 am

First of all: The idea sounds good and I would like to join.

Arkbrik wrote:We have the random monster attacks, but do you have other ideas?.

There are few things as annoying as being attacked and killed by an ultra strong monster out of the blue. (Yes, I am thinking of creepers here.)
The random mob encounter should only apply to small fry like wild animals that typically live in the region. Anything bigger like goblin raiding parties or dragons should have their own marker on the map. And because they usually don't just pop up without warning players should have opportunities to avoid these encounters. Or seek them, if they feel lucky. Important is, that you can track their movement.
Will random encounters only happen when you sleep in the woods or also during daytime?

Rody wrote:I suppose some resource gathering could be included, though in my opinion, leveling gathering skills and gathering enough can quickly become a chore a grind, and that should be avoided.

My thoughts exactly. How long should it take to gather resources for a complete warriors equipment of average quality? How long for high quality? Here the idea to control several characters would come in handy. Maybe instead of three equal characters, it could be one hero with several hencemen who do all the grinding for him but won't level up.
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Postby Ben-Jammin » Thu Jul 07, 2011 7:36 am

I'm starting to like this idea as well, although I don't really have any helpful suggestions right now.
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Postby Arkbrik » Thu Jul 07, 2011 2:07 pm

@501stCadians

Relics and ruins sound cool, though it is another thing to keep track of. But if the game lasts long enough that stuff could develop on its own... Crop harvesting and festivals would have to be arranged by the players, since there won't be any NPCs around to initiate it.

@Ross_Varn

Multiple characters sounds good, even if one of them is doing something boring in a turn the others might be doing something cool, keeping interest in the game. It also fills up the world which is nice.

I love the house system, it's much more simple than keeping track of rooms. Making up new types of buildings with GM approval is of course great.

@Rody

If the economy gets going, you shouldn't have to grind for resources. Skilled woodcutters, for example, will be able to sell their logs to other players. And if you're really stuck then you can create another character with sufficient gathering skills and have them come and help you out.

@knolli

Thanks!

Random monster attacks should definitely be small fry. A few of them would be trying to steal your stuff rather than kill you. At the same time, travelling alone and unarmed through the wilderness has to be risky. But if you have a weapon and know how to use it, you should be fine.

At the end of every turn, the GM tests the savagery of every region (with a d100) that has people in it. The test gets a penalty if there are multiple people in the region. If the test is passed, a monster attacks one randomly chosen person in the area.

Bigger fry should only attack settlements with multiple people. They can be announced one day before they attack, appearing in an adjacent region, for example "The dragon Graglahalak has arisen in the Stony Mountains, seeking to attack the town of Brigstone!" Then everyone has a chance to flee/prepare themselves/make a preemptive attack on the dragon.

I'm hoping that instead of every player grinding forth their own equipment, they will be buying it from each other. Some characters are good armorsmiths, some are good weaponsmiths, and so on like Bonn-o-Tron.

@Ben-Jammin

Thanks, your support is appreciated :D
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Postby Ham701 » Thu Jul 07, 2011 2:35 pm

It should have dinosaurs.
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Postby 501stCadians » Thu Jul 07, 2011 2:41 pm

Ham701 wrote:It should have dinosaurs.


SHOOOOOOOOOOOOOT HERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!
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Postby knolli » Thu Jul 07, 2011 5:52 pm

Arkbrik wrote:@knolli

Thanks!

Random monster attacks should definitely be small fry. A few of them would be trying to steal your stuff rather than kill you. At the same time, travelling alone and unarmed through the wilderness has to be risky. But if you have a weapon and know how to use it, you should be fine.

At the end of every turn, the GM tests the savagery of every region (with a d100) that has people in it. The test gets a penalty if there are multiple people in the region. If the test is passed, a monster attacks one randomly chosen person in the area.

Bigger fry should only attack settlements with multiple people. They can be announced one day before they attack, appearing in an adjacent region, for example "The dragon Graglahalak has arisen in the Stony Mountains, seeking to attack the town of Brigstone!" Then everyone has a chance to flee/prepare themselves/make a preemptive attack on the dragon.

I'm hoping that instead of every player grinding forth their own equipment, they will be buying it from each other. Some characters are good armorsmiths, some are good weaponsmiths, and so on like Bonn-o-Tron.


How big will the regions be? 1 km², 10 km² or even bigger? Than I would like to invent the Awareness or Scouting skill, which allows me to see who inhabits the adjactent regions so I won't be surprised by something big comming my way.
Would it be hard to implement boss monsters who have their lair somewhere and sometimes randomly roam adjactent regions or start a raid from there? So players could have its lair/movements watched and don't need the one day warning you spoke of? They are so big that you can see them from afar, but you can run into them if you are extremly careless (like sleeping on their doorstep without anyone keeping watch). I somhow don't like it that Razzazzor, the Undead Emperor Dragon, could be a day's march away form my town in the heart of the country, but nobody has seen him cross the land to get there.


Grinding: Even if you speciallize and trade your goods with master luberjack Chopper, he still has to grind the wood and then sell it afterwards. If he is gets good prizes he could pay others to do the dirty (speak: interessting) stuff for him and he himself would be stuck in the woods. Wood will always be needed, so someone has to chop it. Always. I don't want to be this Chopper.
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Postby Ross_Varn » Thu Jul 07, 2011 11:46 pm

Devoting one or two of three actions a turn to resource gathering on one character means that it's not that big of a deal though. Selling would be a free action. Also, as to combat being a free action- defense would be. You would have to use an action to attack.

So far, we have:

Players can create and play up to three characters at a time.

Characters start with 10 hp and 10 skill points to level up any type of skill or add hp.

Players start in the wilderness armed with basic equipment based on their skills.

Food is needed to survive.

The wild is divided into regions, each with varying resources.

Players can be attacked by monsters in the wild.

A player character has three actions a day, along with free trade.

Actions are made through skillchecks, like a roll-to-dodge.

Skills that a character has increases the result.

Buildings can be created to make housing, craft items, and build civilization.

Resources to build buildings and craft items can be collected from the land.

Resources can be traded by the players to other players.

You can take control of a region by declaring yourself ruler.

Taxes are collected by rulers.

A large collection of buildings is a town.

Towns are mainly immune to normal monsters, but can be targeted by legendary beasts.

Legendary beasts are hard to kill and live to rampage, proving for a hard fight when they get ticked, but they only come after big fry.

Combat for a character is a contest of skill vs. defense, ending when a side dies or flees the battle.

Death is permanent for a character, but XP carries over to the next created character.

XP is used to level up skills, and is gained by critical successes on a skill roll.


Take a look at that and fix what I missed. Also, we need a name- Obscuria, or Pathways, or something cool. It's shaping up, are you prepared to run a game? We need the map.
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Postby kerlc » Fri Jul 08, 2011 12:13 am

cool. this REALLY sounds like a bastard child of Dwarf fortress and D&D.

i wanna in!
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Postby Arkbrik » Fri Jul 08, 2011 4:49 am

@Ham701

The legendary Tyrannosaurus Rex has arisen on the Death Island, seeking to attack the town of San Diego!

@knolli

I don't have any fixed size for regions... much like Dwarf Fortress tiles, they'll be a bit abstract. They can't fit more than one city, but that city can consist of any number of buildings. And there's always enough wilderness in the region for a few monster lairs.

Good point about the legendary monsters. They could be decided before the game begins and placed in secret locations. Players could find them with an appropriate skill. Towns could draw the attention of them depending on their size (5 people in a town attracts legendary monsters from 1 tile away, 10 people attracts monsters from 2 tiles away, and so on). The legendary monsters would travel 1 tile per day towards their target (wrecking any smaller towns that happen to be in the way). If the monster wins it takes up residence in the ruined town... until attracted by another city.

About grinding: An unskilled woodcutter can cut down an average of 1.7 trees per action. +1 cutter gets 2.5 trees, +2 gets 3.5 trees, +3 gets 4.5 trees, and +4 gets 5.5 trees. So even if you only devote one action per day to chopping trees you'll still have a nice supply of logs to sell.

@Ross_Varn

Thanks for the summary. I think it's almost ready to run, we just need to choose what animals, small monsters and big monsters we should have, and stat them.

@kerlc

We have your vuvuzuela, nothing can stop us now!

@Everyone

Time for Animal/Small monster/Big monster suggestions! What kind of animals do you want to hunt? What critters do you want to attack you in the woods? What legendary beasts do you want to destroy your towns?

Enemies with other behaviours than "fight to the death" are encouraged (like, this creature steals your stuff, this creature eats your food rations, and so on).
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Postby knolli » Fri Jul 08, 2011 6:35 am

Arkbrik wrote:I don't have any fixed size for regions... much like Dwarf Fortress tiles, they'll be a bit abstract. They can't fit more than one city, but that city can consist of any number of buildings. And there's always enough wilderness in the region for a few monster lairs.

Good point about the legendary monsters. They could be decided before the game begins and placed in secret locations. Players could find them with an appropriate skill. Towns could draw the attention of them depending on their size (5 people in a town attracts legendary monsters from 1 tile away, 10 people attracts monsters from 2 tiles away, and so on). The legendary monsters would travel 1 tile per day towards their target (wrecking any smaller towns that happen to be in the way). If the monster wins it takes up residence in the ruined town... until attracted by another city.

Yes, that's exactly what I had in mind. Create the Bosses along with the world and have them be a permantent threat. ;)
Arkbrik wrote: About grinding: An unskilled woodcutter can cut down an average of 1.7 trees per action. +1 cutter gets 2.5 trees, +2 gets 3.5 trees, +3 gets 4.5 trees, and +4 gets 5.5 trees. So even if you only devote one action per day to chopping trees you'll still have a nice supply of logs to sell.

That very much depends on how much wood you would need for bigger structures. If you needed 100 units of wood for a palisade around your town, a level 4 lumberjack still needs to spend about one week only cutting wood. Maybe that would be fine as the game advaces further, but for the first fundamental structures, the costs should be low. There is a lot of balancing to consider here.

Arkbrik wrote:Time for Animal/Small monster/Big monster suggestions! What kind of animals do you want to hunt? What critters do you want to attack you in the woods? What legendary beasts do you want to destroy your towns?

Enemies with other behaviours than "fight to the death" are encouraged (like, this creature steals your stuff, this creature eats your food rations, and so on).

The fun part ;)
Ok, let's stat with the small fry.
    Spuirrels: Usually alone. Live in woods. These small bastards sneak into you backpack and steal your food. They usually flee at the first sign of danger and only attack in self defense, do little damage and die easily - if you can hit them. It is more efficient to simply scare them away, before they get your food. To notice them before it is too late, you could make something like a spot check. Can transmit deseases.
    HP: 1
    Stealth [+2]
    Teeth: 1

    Wild cults, foxes and racoons, giant rats and weasels, crows,...: Usually alone. Live in woods and grasland. They sneak into the camp of the unaware traveller and try to steal his food. They usually flee at the first sign of danger and only attack in self defense. Can transmit deseases.
    HP: 2
    Stealth [+2]
    Teeth and claws: 1d2

    Boars: Usually alone or in small packs. Live in woods. Dangerous for the untrained. Drops 4 rations and fur.
    HP: 6
    tusks 1d4

    Wolfs: similar to boars but added for some variation.

    Leeches: A swarm of dozens of leeches. Live in small waters. They suck your blood and can transfer deseases. Can be colleced for medical use.
    Can transmit deseases.
    HP: 1
    suck 1/2 HP per day up to 3, then they are full. Cutting them off does 1 dam.
    Infect you with swamp fever with 1/6rd probability (1 and 2 on a 1d6)

    will-o'-wisp: Appear in bands of 1d4+2. Live in woods and swamps. They don't do any damage themself but confuse and disorient you. [Need magic/will defend mechanism here]. If you fail, you are forced to use an action to follow them. If you succeed, you may try to kill or capture a will-o'-wisp for magic ingredients.

    Dryad: Appear alone. Live in the woods - literally. Beautifull and peacefull magic creatures who protect their sacred groves. They detest luberjacks. When you try to chop one of their trees, they use their magic (aka sexappeal) to make you forgett about it. Afterwards you usually can't quite remember where you had put your axe. No need to mention that you loose the action you indented to use to chop wood.
    The forces of nature are strong in the sacred groves. Rare and powerfull herbs and plants can be found here. The groves are protected against evil and give shelter to good hearted travellers in need. It is also possible to befriend a dryad.
    HP: 10

    Cave gnomes: Usually alone or in small groups. Live in caves. Small, shy beeings with the looks of Dobby, the house elf. Have the power to turn invisible. Like to play pranks like hiding tools or keys, messing with guideposts and such. They sometimes also try to steal food. Usualy harmless and flee at first sign of danger. When tricked into showing themself, they are bound in honor to live with this person, but are almost useless for any kind of work.
    HP: 4
While writing this list I realised that we need a list of deseases and rules for infection and treatement.

The bigger ones:
    generic humaoid brutes aka Not-Orcs. The GHB has stats similar to humans, use tools and weapons and have something like (un-)social culture. They love war and mayhem - just like us. Accoring to rumors, they have a camp or town somewhere and if you get to near you can run in one of their scouts or workers. Sometimes they form war bands and raid parties, plunder human settlements and return home. By now they have collected some reasonable treasures.
    GHB-worker:
    HP: 10
    appropriate weapon skill: +1
    weapon: 1d6

    GHB-grunt:
    HP: 15
    appropriate weapon skill: +3
    weapon: 1d6+1
    armor class: 1 or 2

    GHB-Warlord:
    HP: 30
    appropriate weapon skill: +4
    weapon: 1d6+3
    armor class: 3


    The Undead Emperor-Dragon Rhazzazor The great Evil. The most powerfull being in this part of the world. He is said to haunt the ruins of the ancient city of Warunk and control the far end of [where the game will take place]. He holds wisdom forbidden to mankind and guards artefacts powerfull enough to slay armies with a blow.
    His army of Undead partols the borders of his dead realm and kill any living being mercilessly.
    Rhazzazzor:
    HP: 200
    Black Fire:
    Tails and Claws:
    Magik:

    Skeleton: Groups of 3 to 12. Lives in the Dead Lands. Stats like human, uses wapons (the rusty kind)
    HP: 9
    appropriate weapon skill: -
    weapon: 1d6
    Resist to blades, black magik, cold,...
    weak to blunt weapons, holy magic, fire,...
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