LDD SOmewhat Robotech-ish Mecha

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Re: LDD SOmewhat Robotech-ish Mecha

Postby Joshua A.C. Newman » Sun Jan 22, 2012 9:00 pm

Tzan wrote:Image


Wow. I guess we all have our bad days.

It kinda reminds me of badagle's avatar, though.

Nether feature designs any more practical for combat then Warhammer 40k's walking war cathedrals...


I dig the walking cathedral ones, actually. Like I just said. I like the BBC/2000AD aesthetic. It means a lot to me.

But if we're gonna beef: they can't put one leg in front of the other and don't have tails. Even if they were able to rub mecha potion on themselves and move their limbs, they'd be literally incapable of walking. They're designed to have this macho wide stance that means that they'd have to move their center of gravity waaaaay to the side to not fall over to take a step. They'd more more side to side than forward.

That is, they'd waddle like giant penguins.

Image

waddle waddle waddle waddle waddle waddle

By contrast, some Okawara, off the leash:
Image

And yes, he also designed the Guntank. Here it is, flying in space.

Image

This scene was so embarrassing, they cut it from the movie, sacrificing what was no doubt supposed to be a tense and memorable battle scene out of shame.
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Re: LDD SOmewhat Robotech-ish Mecha

Postby Whiteagle » Mon Jan 23, 2012 11:06 am

Joshua A.C. Newman wrote:It kinda reminds me of badagle's avatar, though.

Hey buddy, anything built with the Brickmaster Kit is going to look like it was ether built with an X-pod, or look like that.

Joshua A.C. Newman wrote:By contrast, some Okawara, off the leash:
Image

Ah yes, the Vertical One-man Tank for Offense and ManueverS, an over-sized power-suit trying to be an armored fighting vehicle that needs roller blades and fuel so volatile it explodes when exposed to the wrong temperature just to function on the battlefield.

They're employed in such numbers to suggest they are little more then scaled up infantry and have such a high casualties percentage it's a miracle any force deploying them doesn't bankrupt themselves after a single engagement.

Seriously, at least the Gundam series has things like Active Mass Balance Auto-Control (AMBAC) and the Minovsky Ultracompact Fusion Reactor to justify Mobile Suits being used in space.
These things would be defeated by a stiff breeze...

Joshua A.C. Newman wrote:And yes, he also designed the Guntank. Here it is, flying in space.

Image

This scene was so embarrassing, they cut it from the movie, sacrificing what was no doubt supposed to be a tense and memorable battle scene out of shame.

Hey, it isn't the Guntank's fault the showrunners used it as a failed Mobile Suit Prototype instead increasing its size a little and using it as a mobile Orbital Defense Platform on the Moon...

...It's what I would have done with it.
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Re: LDD SOmewhat Robotech-ish Mecha

Postby Joshua A.C. Newman » Mon Jan 23, 2012 11:26 am

badagle wrote:
Joshua A.C. Newman wrote:It kinda reminds me of badagle's avatar, though.

Hey buddy, anything built with the Brickmaster Kit is going to look like it was ether built with an X-pod, or look like that.


I'm sure that's what Kunio said when he produced that clown vomit above.

Ah yes, the Vertical One-man Tank for Offense and ManueverS, an over-sized power-suit trying to be an armored fighting vehicle that needs roller blades and fuel so volatile it explodes when exposed to the wrong temperature just to function on the battlefield.

They're employed in such numbers to suggest they are little more then scaled up infantry and have such a high casualties percentage it's a miracle any force deploying them doesn't bankrupt themselves after a single engagement.


They're obviously incredibly cheap. Every time they need one, they build one up from a junkyard.

Given that VOTOMS has one foot in Vietnam and the other in Normandy, you can see the writers looking for a way to maximize casualties and fuckups.

Seriously, at least the Gundam series has things like Active Mass Balance Auto-Control (AMBAC) and the Minovsky Ultracompact Fusion Reactor to justify Mobile Suits being used in space.

These things would be defeated by a stiff breeze...


Yeah, they are. It's like the entire show is populated by Gundam mooks. Except for our hero who seems remarkably bullet-resistant.

Joshua A.C. Newman wrote:And yes, he also designed the Guntank. Here it is, flying in space.

Image

This scene was so embarrassing, they cut it from the movie, sacrificing what was no doubt supposed to be a tense and memorable battle scene out of shame.

Hey, it isn't the Guntank's fault the showrunners used it as a failed Mobile Suit Prototype instead increasing its size a little and using it as a mobile Orbital Defense Platform on the Moon...

...It's what I would have done with it.


Gundam 00 has the same niches filled in the team, with the addition of a high-speed guy. I'm sure other series do similar things. It didn't have to be so totally awkward.
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Re: LDD SOmewhat Robotech-ish Mecha

Postby Whiteagle » Mon Jan 23, 2012 11:53 am

Joshua A.C. Newman wrote:They're obviously incredibly cheap. Every time they need one, they build one up from a junkyard.

Given that VOTOMS has one foot in Vietnam and the other in Normandy, you can see the writers looking for a way to maximize casualties and fuckups.

...

Yeah, they are. It's like the entire show is populated by Gundam mooks. Except for our hero who seems remarkably bullet-resistant.

Yes yes, war is hell and all that, but we just HAVE to have giant robots that otherwise have no place on the battlefield.
:roll:

Joshua A.C. Newman wrote:
badagle wrote:Hey, it isn't the Guntank's fault the showrunners used it as a failed Mobile Suit Prototype instead increasing its size a little and using it as a mobile Orbital Defense Platform on the Moon...

...It's what I would have done with it.


Gundam 00 has the same niches filled in the team, with the addition of a high-speed guy. I'm sure other series do similar things. It didn't have to be so totally awkward.

Yeah, difference is the Mecha Designer of Double-Oh probably didn't come up with the designs first, then had to watch them shoe-horned into the plot.
Seriously, they put the half-tank ON A SPACE SHIP!

...Then they fazed it out for looking to much like Getter-3.
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Re: LDD SOmewhat Robotech-ish Mecha

Postby Soren » Mon Jan 23, 2012 12:04 pm

munch, munch

Anyone else want popcorn?
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Re: LDD SOmewhat Robotech-ish Mecha

Postby Joshua A.C. Newman » Mon Jan 23, 2012 12:06 pm

The designer is the same dude. [Edit: Oh, you said "Double-O". I either misread you or you edited it. Not the same dude.]

I'm willing to suspend my disbelief if it works a couple of questions deep. I mean, I'm willing to accept superluminal travel as a premise even though the phrase doesn't actually mean anything — "faster" stops having meaning as we understand it at very high speeds. I'm willing to accept all sorts of stuff as a premise, as long as the parts all work together.

VOTOMS was clearly a labor of love, where Gundam was designed in the spirit of Gaogaigar and other series: as a way to sell toy robots. The result is that VOTOMS is a cult classic and Gundam is an unkillable giant monster.
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Re: LDD SOmewhat Robotech-ish Mecha

Postby Whiteagle » Mon Jan 23, 2012 1:28 pm

Soren wrote:munch, munch

Anyone else want popcorn?

OOOH! Can I have some?

Joshua A.C. Newman wrote:I'm willing to suspend my disbelief if it works a couple of questions deep. I mean, I'm willing to accept superluminal travel as a premise even though the phrase doesn't actually mean anything — "faster" stops having meaning as we understand it at very high speeds. I'm willing to accept all sorts of stuff as a premise, as long as the parts all work together.

Very well, but on my end VOTOMS is just taking the Gundam formula and using Starship Trooper style suits instead of the traditional 60 foot Samurai Robots.

Joshua A.C. Newman wrote:VOTOMS was clearly a labor of love, where Gundam was designed in the spirit of Gaogaigar and other series: as a way to sell toy robots. The result is that VOTOMS is a cult classic and Gundam is an unkillable giant monster.

U mad I don't like your shitty 80's Japanimation* bro?
I thought you were the guy begging to be hazed in his own thread?
:troll:

Seriously though, as much fun as it's been inciting you to rant about your favorite mecha, it's a matter of personal taste.
You like the squat and ugly little "realistic" ones, while I don't since it just gets me thinking even more about how impractical such a machine would be.
Then again, this discussion has inspired me ponder a Guntank-like design, and I can help but want to thrown some Theropod elements into the upper body to turn it into some kind of Tank/Truckasaurus hybrid.

In the end, we're just two dudes argueing over the internet, so as a peace offering here is a Zaku tank:
Image

*Also, anyone know why Google Spellcheck wants to turn "Japanimation" into "Keypunching"?
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Re: LDD SOmewhat Robotech-ish Mecha

Postby Soren » Mon Jan 23, 2012 2:01 pm

badagle wrote:OOOH! Can I have some?

buruuurrrrrp sorry, finished. You shoulda been faster.

I feel kind of responsible here since I'm the one who made J sit down and actually *watch* VOTOMS and some Gundam, so it's also my fault that I didn't warn him about this stupid-ass argument beforehand. You're (more or less) right, but you're accidentally right, and you're a tool besides for trying to hash out something that has been beaten to death forever.

Originally, Gundam was going to feature Starship-Troopers sized suits, but they revised and revised to get something toy-company sponsors would actually pay for. That's why they went with the bright primary colors, too, instead of the scary Stormtroopery all-white Tomino wanted after seeing Star Wars.

The main argument for giant robots is that they're mobile. Well, something 18m tall ain't gonna be all that mobile for reasons of ground-pressure and basic physics - something 4m tall, maybe. Then there's the horizon argument, where I just note that 2m tall is already considered kind of a risky target profile for tanks, let alone something fragile and bendy like a robot. Realism doesn't apply here, and if it does, no robots, or at least something that looks a lot more like a Scopedog than a Zaku.

Battletech-and-Guntank style hardware has all the disadvantages of a robot and a tank, simultaneously. Macross had the decency to at least wave some hands and say 'they're stopgap machines designed to fight giants' and, you know, show the Destroids as more or less useless. "My robot has missiles and lasers and shit" is easily countered by "my robot can take cover, and get back up if it falls down."

Then there's the universal battlefield rule of big scary stuff: you can call an airstrike on anything. Giant robot shows are historically bad about artillery for a reason. If I knock your robot over, I can keep bombing it until I run out of bombs. Soldiers have called in airstrikes on positions where they just think there might be a sniper, on cows, on guys taking a shit in the woods. If you deploy a strategic-scale target, they will deploy strategic-scale firepower against it. Not only is there no kill like overkill, there's nothing funnier than overkill with high explosives.

So J's actually got the right idea, because you can't argue the realism, but you can argue aesthetics all day long (and it's hard to argue with Okawara on his good days).
Last edited by Soren on Mon Jan 23, 2012 2:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: LDD SOmewhat Robotech-ish Mecha

Postby Joshua A.C. Newman » Mon Jan 23, 2012 2:08 pm

"Unkillable giant monster" is a complement! As in Godzilla!

The question isn't which I like. The question is what's to like about them. And just how ridiculous the parts you like are.

We're totally dudes arguing on the Internet, complete with basically saying, "I like this!" "I like it too and also this!" "YUO AER FAGGOTE" "NO U" "FART FART FART" "DHERP"
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Re: LDD SOmewhat Robotech-ish Mecha

Postby Keldoclock » Mon Jan 23, 2012 2:35 pm

Until perhaps thirty seconds ago, I had no idea that Mechwarrior was not it's own IP. The only experience I have with it is Mechwarrior 4, which I enjoyed immensely as a wee lad.

I still think they are the coolest mechs.Image
Image
Image
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Re: LDD SOmewhat Robotech-ish Mecha

Postby Joshua A.C. Newman » Mon Jan 23, 2012 2:42 pm

waddle waddle waddle waddle
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Re: LDD SOmewhat Robotech-ish Mecha

Postby RunsWithLegos » Mon Jan 23, 2012 3:05 pm

Image

Waddle WADDLE WADDLE
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Re: LDD SOmewhat Robotech-ish Mecha

Postby Joshua A.C. Newman » Mon Jan 23, 2012 3:52 pm

The designer of that thing has clearly never been close to another human's hips.

It's easier than he thinks. Just ask a lot of questions, laugh at their jokes, and if they make a lot of eye contact and touch their mouth or hair a lot, invite them to coffee.

It would help their design immensely.
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Re: LDD SOmewhat Robotech-ish Mecha

Postby BFenix » Mon Jan 23, 2012 4:27 pm

Jap mechs are cool, but Battlemechs are the shit!
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Re: LDD SOmewhat Robotech-ish Mecha

Postby Joshua A.C. Newman » Mon Jan 23, 2012 4:45 pm

That's exactly what they are.

Image
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