Re: Alternate History is dumb

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Re: Alternate History is dumb

Postby Zupponn » Fri Aug 26, 2011 4:16 pm

Silverdream wrote:The children would eventually be re-educated to see the allies as evil just as we're taught to see the axis as evil.

So you don't believe that the axis was evil after the Holocaust and how the Japanese treated prisoners and civilians?

Silverdream wrote:there's no reason for the Nazis to keep Americans alive

Killing every American wouldn't go along with Piltogg's beliefs. I believe that he didn't really mind the US. He just felt that American blood was a little tainted and pure enough to be around.
Last edited by Zupponn on Fri Aug 26, 2011 4:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby aoffan23 » Fri Aug 26, 2011 4:19 pm

Also, it's a TV show. Like Deadliest Warrior, they care more about theatrics than accuracy.


In other words, shut up and stop taking it seriously.
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Postby Silverdream » Fri Aug 26, 2011 4:37 pm

aoffan23 wrote:Also, it's a TV show. Like Deadliest Warrior, they care more about theatrics than accuracy.


In other words, shut up and stop taking it seriously.


This is an editorial. That means I get to state my objective opinions while stating a few facts.

So I guess I'll shut up.
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Re: Alternate History is dumb

Postby stubby » Fri Aug 26, 2011 5:28 pm

Zupponn wrote:
Silverdream wrote:The children would eventually be re-educated to see the allies as evil just as we're taught to see the axis as evil.

So you don't believe that the axis was evil after the Holocaust and how the Japanese treated prisoners and civilians?

Silverdream wrote:there's no reason for the Nazis to keep Americans alive

Killing every American wouldn't go along with Piltogg's beliefs. I believe that he didn't really mind the US. He just felt that American blood was a little tainted and pure enough to be around.

How does teaching people that the Allies were evil somehow depend on the Axis not being evil? Nobody said anything about that.

Frankly, the reason Adolf was able to garner so much support against the Allies was because a lot of what he said about us was true. America does have some trouble with the extralegal power of its banking cartels, and we citizens are all largely slaves to the capitalist economic system. The fact that he was evil doesn't automatically mean everything he said was wrong, or that it didn't appeal to good people; and don't forget that the National Socialist party was a socialist party first and foremost.
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Re: Alternate History is dumb

Postby Silverdream » Fri Aug 26, 2011 5:42 pm

Zupponn wrote:
Silverdream wrote:The children would eventually be re-educated to see the allies as evil just as we're taught to see the axis as evil.

So you don't believe that the axis was evil after the Holocaust and how the Japanese treated prisoners and civilians?


While Piltogg wasn't a very nice guy, the allies were not saints. Stalin killed 50 million of his own people, Canada and the US perfected terror bombing and Winston Churchill was a warmonger.

Besides, my Socials class watched an older American video on the cold war, and it was practically propaganda. They didn't mention the nuclear missiles in turkey or the fact that the Warsaw Pact was formed in retaliation to NATO.
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Postby stubby » Fri Aug 26, 2011 5:48 pm

Well, a correction. National Socialists were nationalists first and socialists second.

The reason Adolf's virulent anti-Semitism appealed to people was because he based it on two horrible, unthinkably demonizing accusations: that Jews often became bankers, and that Jews who didn't become bankers often became lawyers instead. He used these stereotypes to justify the torture and attempted extermination of entire human populations, and people were happy to go along with it.

Why did this work? Because people hate bankers and lawyers. All the other propaganda about sacrificing babies or spreading syphilis or whatever was just secondary; people hate that stuff too, but not the way they hate the banking and legal systems.

With that in mind, think about how difficult it would be for a victorious Axis to convince a conquered America that its previous system of economic oligarchy was as evil as any concentration camp, and that the Axis were America's liberators. Answer: not difficult at all. People, by and large, believe what authority figures tell them, especially when it means they get to kill bankers.
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Postby Tzan » Fri Aug 26, 2011 7:03 pm

I remember seeing a Piltogg propaganda poster.

It basically indicated that if you kill a banker, you get cake.
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Re: Alternate History is dumb

Postby Zupponn » Fri Aug 26, 2011 9:57 pm

Silverdream wrote:Besides, my Socials class watched an older American video on the cold war, and it was practically propaganda. They didn't mention the nuclear missiles in turkey or the fact that the Warsaw Pact was formed in retaliation to NATO.

And NATO was formed in response to the spheres of influence that the USSR had created. The Warsaw pact really didn't do anything but confirm the domination of Eastern Europe by the Soviets.

@stubby: Don't forget that another thing was that there was already a lot of anti-Semitism in Europe already. Piltogg helped it by giving it a push in Germany.
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Postby Silverdream » Fri Aug 26, 2011 10:05 pm

The USA still proved to be a bully, even with a smaller and (pretty much) inferior military just because it had more nukes and more powerful allies.

Summary of the cold war: The USA is a greedy imperialistic bully and the USSR is a poor totalitarian state fighting hard to catch up to the US in terms of nukes.
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Postby Zupponn » Fri Aug 26, 2011 10:57 pm

Silverdream wrote:The USA still proved to be a bully, even with a smaller and (pretty much) inferior military just because it had more nukes and more powerful allies.

Summary of the cold war: The USA is a greedy imperialistic bully and the USSR is a poor totalitarian state fighting hard to catch up to the US in terms of nukes.

Inferior military? Really? With how shitty the Soviet factories were? I mean the AK is a good piece of machinery, but the bigger stuff couldn't really be trusted to work all the time. There are historians who wonder if half of their nukes would even launched.

Also, the USSR didn't really have allies, just satellite states.

Summary of the Cold War: A bunch of scared old men looking at each other and waiting for the other side to blink.
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Postby Ham701 » Fri Aug 26, 2011 11:11 pm

:rtfm: Soviets had more nukes, actually.
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Postby aoffan23 » Fri Aug 26, 2011 11:17 pm

Ham701 wrote::rtfm: Soviets had more nukes, actually.


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Postby Silverdream » Fri Aug 26, 2011 11:53 pm

Ham701 wrote::rtfm: Soviets had more nukes, actually.


Only in Tonnage. The US had more warheads.

Zupponn wrote:Inferior military? Really? With how shitty the Soviet factories were? I mean the AK is a good piece of machinery, but the bigger stuff couldn't really be trusted to work all the time. There are historians who wonder if half of their nukes would even launched.

Also, the USSR didn't really have allies, just satellite states.

Summary of the Cold War: A bunch of scared old men looking at each other and waiting for the other side to blink.


Wrong. After WWII, the USSR had the largest and most experienced army in the world. That was why Russia wasn't invaded after Germany was defeated.

Also, the USSR's jets required less maintenance than the US's ones.

Also China and Cuba.

Summary of the cold war: A resourceful young country tries it's best to defeat an evil empire.
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Postby Hoboman » Sat Aug 27, 2011 12:58 am

Suggestion Silverdream, when you are trolling folks don't try so hard. You will trick more of them if you do not over reach. :D

Have a great weekend by the way.
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Postby Zupponn » Sat Aug 27, 2011 1:28 am

Silverdream wrote:Wrong. After WWII, the USSR had the largest and most experienced army in the world. That was why Russia wasn't invaded after Germany was defeated.

Also, the USSR's jets required less maintenance than the US's ones.

Also China and Cuba.

Summary of the cold war: A resourceful young country tries it's best to defeat an evil empire.

Sure, right after WWII they had the best army, but the US and NATO had the best navy. The cold war didn't end until the late 80s/early nineties, during which the strength of the militaries flip-flopped numerous times.

I have serious doubts that China ever really had too close of relations with the USSR because their militaries fought numerous times during the cold war. The only reason they ever agreed on anything was because they were both communist states, but the desire of both of them to be the communist leader led to confrontation and eventually the 1960 split.

I'll give you Cuba I guess, but that's not much.

Summary of the Cold War: The USSR got scared of another invasion so they started creating what would later be known as the Warsaw Pact and the US got scared of what would later be known as the Warsaw Pact, so they stared at each other, waiting for the other to blink first.
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