Cover and Shields

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Cover and Shields

Postby Rev. Sylvanus » Thu Oct 18, 2012 4:36 pm

Hi folks,

I've been re-evaluating my shield-wall tactics in medieval battles and began thinking about minifig tower shields, like the ones that debuted in KK or the following from Brick Warriors:

Image

My question is this. According to the rulebook, minifigs and MOC's have cover based on how much of the target you can see. If an enemy with a ranged weapon shoots at a minifig whose torso and legs are completely covered by the tower shield, does this confer 2/3 cover? This question also comes from a brief comment in Chapter 5 of the rules

Rather than trying to estimate how many studs' worth of any given minifig is visible, minifigs are divided into three main sections - the head (including helmet, hat, or hair), the torso (including arms, backpacks, and armor, but not carried equipment), and the legs. If the attacker can see any part of one of these sections, however small, then the section is considered visible.


Based on this wording, a tower shield--separate equipment--would not be considered a visible section of the minifig, and possibly provide cover.

Thoughts?

--Rev.
Last edited by Rev. Sylvanus on Thu Oct 18, 2012 8:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Cover and Shields

Postby stubby » Thu Oct 18, 2012 4:43 pm

Rev. Sylvanus wrote:Based on this wording, a tower shield--separate equipment--would not be considered a visible section of the minifig, and possible providing cover.

Sounds good to me. I want to beef up the rules for large shields and shield walls when I get to Heavy Infantry in Chapter 11.
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Re: Cover and Shields

Postby IVhorseman » Thu Oct 18, 2012 6:37 pm

So what about regular-old shields? do those provide cover too?

This is definitely something I've had players argue over. Sometimes we decide that the shield roll already compensates for whether or not they're in cover, other times i let players count them as cover because they've got nice tits or something.
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Re: Cover and Shields

Postby Rev. Sylvanus » Thu Oct 18, 2012 8:29 pm

For my minifigures, the only shields that can reliably do this are the rectangular tower shields. A unit can be set up so that only the head of the fig is still visible. Oval shields might be able to provide cover to the torso if you can blot it from view entirely. Small triangle shields are probably SOL. But that's how I'm gonna do it. As per the wording of Chapter 5, if the shield entirely covers the head, torso, or legs, it gets cover for that.

If the attacker can see any part of one of these sections, however small, then the section is considered visible.
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Re: Cover and Shields

Postby IVhorseman » Fri Oct 19, 2012 2:56 am

A lot of times the argument comes up when they've already got a third of cover or so, and try to cheese their shield into getting 2/3rd cover.

I'm in favor of only having heavy shields do this too.
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Re: Cover and Shields

Postby stubby » Fri Oct 19, 2012 10:44 am

I'm currently leaning towards shields being able to Parry for CC attacks, but used as cover for ranged attacks. Ranged attackers can attempt to fire through the shield if they want to avoid the cover penalty, but it means the target automatically gets the Armored bonus.
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Re: Cover and Shields

Postby Rev. Sylvanus » Fri Oct 19, 2012 12:03 pm

stubby wrote:I'm currently leaning towards shields being able to Parry for CC attacks, but used as cover for ranged attacks. Ranged attackers can attempt to fire through the shield if they want to avoid the cover penalty, but it means the target automatically gets the Armored bonus.


I like it. And it addresses the next question on my mind...can the shield itself be destroyed and/or targeted and what stats address that...
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Re: Cover and Shields

Postby IVhorseman » Fri Oct 19, 2012 12:35 pm

I'd imagine two crits in a row would be enough to break it, regardless of damage actually dealt.
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Re: Cover and Shields

Postby Gungnir » Fri Oct 19, 2012 10:44 pm

I treat heavy shields as an armor plate on the front of the fig. While it does give them extra protection, they move at half speed and can't climb, jump, or swim. I think it's a good trade-off for a minifig-sized unit.
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Re: Cover and Shields

Postby Rev. Sylvanus » Fri Oct 19, 2012 11:25 pm

Gungnir wrote:I treat heavy shields as an armor plate on the front of the fig. While it does give them extra protection, they move at half speed and can't climb, jump, or swim. I think it's a good trade-off for a minifig-sized unit.


Sounds reasonable, but that is just the armored rules again. I was curious about what folks thought about using shields like cover if the shield completely obscures either the legs or torso as per the cover rules in Chapter 5.
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Re: Cover and Shields

Postby aoffan23 » Fri Oct 19, 2012 11:57 pm

Rev. Sylvanus wrote:
Gungnir wrote:I treat heavy shields as an armor plate on the front of the fig. While it does give them extra protection, they move at half speed and can't climb, jump, or swim. I think it's a good trade-off for a minifig-sized unit.


Sounds reasonable, but that is just the armored rules again. I was curious about what folks thought about using shields like cover if the shield completely obscures either the legs or torso as per the cover rules in Chapter 5.


I don't see the difference between a shield and an armour plate. Vehicles hide their worky bits behind armour plates, and minifigs hide their worky bits (IE their body) behind shields. If the shield is always with the wielder, then how is that any different from the armour on a vehicle?

The only differentiation I'd make is when it comes to component damage. While a suit of armour allows you to target individual sections of the body, a shield would call for a "true cover" principle, where you can only target what you can see. That, and the ability to destroy the shield itself. Bringing cover into it just overcomplicates things, I think.
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Re: Cover and Shields

Postby IVhorseman » Sat Oct 20, 2012 1:10 am

I like ignoring the targeting penalty in order to automatically target the shield since it's consistent with the vehicle armor plating rules.
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Re: Cover and Shields

Postby Ben-Jammin » Sat Oct 20, 2012 6:01 am

I've always wondered if different shield sizes had different defense values. For instance, if the small, more triangular lego shields provide 1d6 parry, would the large ovoid ones do the same? Would they both provide cover and a parry?
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Re: Cover and Shields

Postby Rev. Sylvanus » Sat Oct 20, 2012 7:56 am

aoffan23 wrote:I don't see the difference between a shield and an armour plate. Vehicles hide their worky bits behind armour plates, and minifigs hide their worky bits (IE their body) behind shields. If the shield is always with the wielder, then how is that any different from the armour on a vehicle?

The only differentiation I'd make is when it comes to component damage. While a suit of armour allows you to target individual sections of the body, a shield would call for a "true cover" principle, where you can only target what you can see. That, and the ability to destroy the shield itself. Bringing cover into it just overcomplicates things, I think.


A difference I would see is that whereas the armored plating is always (unless destroyed) attached to the vehicle, shields aren't always with the wielder. Plenty of times I've had minifigs abandon shields to perform actions or pick up different armament, and at other times I've had figs without shields claim them from fallen foes or comrades.

And again, what I'm suggesting is NOT adding some new function to a shield. All I'm suggesting is reading the cover rules as written with shields in mind. Cover rules say that minfigs are divided into legs/torso/head. Cover happens when one or more of those sections is completely obscured to the attacker. To me, that would suggest if a shield completely obscures one of those sections, it's cover. Like any other cover that can also be overcome, destroyed, or blasted through.
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Re: Cover and Shields

Postby IVhorseman » Sat Oct 20, 2012 2:00 pm

Actual armor however, tends to stay attached to a minifig pretty much forever. Sure it can be taken off with a full-round action, but that *never* happens.
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