Newbish n00b questions, MkII

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Re: Newbish n00b questions, MkII

Postby Battlegrinder » Tue Aug 12, 2014 8:09 pm

stubby wrote:
Battlegrinder wrote:How much does it cost to give a minifig extra HP? I'm thinking of buffing my Ranger squad slightly, and part of that upgrade would be to give them an extra HP, but I'm not sure how much that would cost (which is something I need to know for balance purposes, at least).

BrikWars doesn't have rules for HP. How would HP work, if you added them to your battle?


I'd use it the same way people use it with multi-HP heroes, where each fatal hit removes a single HP from the minifig. I know bragsalot is using some 2 HP infantry in his current forum battle, but I'm not sure if he stated them out with CP or not. My current plan to pay for multi-HP infantry would be to to double the minifig's base cost (not sure if I'd add in bonus traits or SN die to that cost or not, but I'll figure it out).
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Re: Newbish n00b questions, MkII

Postby aoffan23 » Wed Aug 13, 2014 1:39 am

IVhorseman wrote:Absolutely, although the size of the engine could lower the penalty substantially. Keep in mind that a bullet loses force when entering a hood and that numerous other factors attribute to the engine being harder to get a good hit on like Bonn-o-Tron.

The same applies to these shield guys. The size of a shield you'd need to get that -5 penalty going would have to be pretty enormous as-is, so knowing where the guy is could be a bit more difficult. Remember, we're talking about a shield SO CARTOONISHLY HUGE that it completely covers the wielder, to the point that even he would be unable to see what the hell he's marching towards. Practical? Maybe not. But very Brikwars.


If you hit something dead on, but the bullet loses enough force to be stopped, that doesn't have much to do with skill; it's the amour rating of the object. The similar thing applies to a shield. If you see a dude walking at you with a giant piece of armour in front of him, it's a pretty safe bet to assume that if you shoot in the middle of the shield, you'll hit him. The not going through the shield would come into effect when rolling for damage and armour.

Like I mentioned with the wall, the dude can move behind the wall, while the wall will show no sign of where the guy is moving. If someone carrying a shield moves to the right, the shield moves to the right. Even if we're talking a full-body shield, you know where the centre of that motion is coming from: the dude directly behind it. You could fire twenty shots right where the guy's head is and still not kill him, but that has nothing to do with skill. The most skilled marksman in the world would have no advantage over someone who has never fired a gun when it comes to punching through a piece of metal.
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Re: Newbish n00b questions, MkII

Postby stubby » Thu Aug 14, 2014 12:50 am

Battlegrinder wrote:I'd use it the same way people use it with multi-HP heroes, where each fatal hit removes a single HP from the minifig.

Oh, we don't call those HP, we call them redshirts.
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Re: Newbish n00b questions, MkII

Postby Gungnir » Thu Aug 14, 2014 5:41 pm

Shields don't count as cover.
ARGUMENT SETTLED.
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Re: Newbish n00b questions, MkII

Postby stubby » Thu Aug 14, 2014 6:51 pm

Gungnir wrote:Shields don't count as cover.
ARGUMENT SETTLED.


Heavy Shield: Size:(M) Cost:1CP Use:3 Range:CC Effect:Armored Parry Notes:Parry or Shove only, can provide cover
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Re: Newbish n00b questions, MkII

Postby Gungnir » Thu Aug 14, 2014 9:18 pm

I don't think it should, to be honest. Like Aoffan said, you know there's a guy there, and it wouldn't be hard to hit that kind of target. It shouldn't be a matter of skill, but being able to deal enough damage to punch through the shield.
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Re: Newbish n00b questions, MkII

Postby aoffan23 » Thu Aug 14, 2014 9:51 pm

My argument only really makes sense in the rare case that the shield fully covers the minifig. In a situation where part of the minifig is visible, you're going to be aiming for that instead of the shield, and there is skill involved. If you don't roll well enough to hit the minifig, you could still potentially penetrate the shield with good damage rolls.

I guess the fully covered wielder situation isn't significant enough to have different rules for it, so it would really be up to the players to house rule it.
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Re: Newbish n00b questions, MkII

Postby Gungnir » Fri Aug 15, 2014 12:06 am

I usually just buy heavy shields as a 1" armored plate on the front or side of the minifig anyway.
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Re: Newbish n00b questions, MkII

Postby Voin » Thu Aug 28, 2014 12:29 am

Gungnir wrote:I usually just buy heavy shields as a 1" armored plate on the front or side of the minifig anyway.


I recently played a game of Brikwars against a friend where my troop formations used heavy shields as cover. It worked reasonably well - as long as I had troops still standing to maintain said formation. It's a worthwhile tactic, but not impregnable.

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Re: Newbish n00b questions, MkII

Postby stubby » Thu Aug 28, 2014 9:54 am

Gungnir wrote:I don't think it should, to be honest. Like Aoffan said, you know there's a guy there, and it wouldn't be hard to hit that kind of target. It shouldn't be a matter of skill, but being able to deal enough damage to punch through the shield.

Or more specifically, to punch cleanly through the shield, without the damage being deflected at any significant angle in the process.

Voin wrote:I recently played a game of Brikwars against a friend where my troop formations used heavy shields as cover. It worked reasonably well - as long as I had troops still standing to maintain said formation. It's a worthwhile tactic, but not impregnable.

Beautiful. I need to go home and see if I have enough of these guys to get this formation in a photograph.

Current draft rules:

Heavy Infantry
Skill: 1d6
Move: 4"
Armor: 4

Specialty: Phalanx (+1CP)
Heavy Infantry specialize in coordinated use of Heavy Shields. If a Phalanx unit is in a Squad between two other Phalanx units, all with Heavy Shields pointed in the same direction, then they have formed a Shield Wall. For the Phalanx unit or units in the middle (but not the units on the ends!), all Damage from the other side of the Shield Wall is automatically Parried. This does not spend any of the unit's Actions or Counters; it happens automatically.

Even without a Shield Wall, if a Phalanx unit is in a Squad with at least one other Phalanx unit, and both have Shields or Heavy Shields, then they receive a +1 to all Parry rolls.

A Phalanx Squad cannot be forced to engage in a Melee through a Shield Wall. If they are forced to engage in Melee from an attack on one of their un-Shielded sides, or if they choose to drop the Shield Wall and engage in a Melee voluntarily, the Shield Wall is disrupted and any Phalanx benefits are canceled for as long as they are in Melee.

Specialty: March (+1CP)
If a Marching unit is in a Squad with at least one other Marching unit, they can March in formation, walking at normal speed and ignoring Movement penalties from Body Armor or Heavy Armor. Marching is walking only - units cannot jump, Sprint, or climb in the same turn as Marching, although they can still Bail if necessary. Marching does not cost an Action.
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Re: Newbish n00b questions, MkII

Postby Voin » Thu Aug 28, 2014 2:54 pm

stubby wrote:Beautiful. I need to go home and see if I have enough of these guys to get this formation in a photograph.


Thank you! But before you attempt it, you should know that due to the limitations of minifig articulation (they can't lift their arms above their heads), I had to give them "cheat sticks" to make the testudo formation happen.

Image

stubby wrote:Current draft rules:

Heavy Infantry
Skill: 1d6
Move: 4"
Armor: 4

Specialty: Phalanx (+1CP)
Heavy Infantry specialize in coordinated use of Heavy Shields. If a Phalanx unit is in a Squad between two other Phalanx units, all with Heavy Shields pointed in the same direction, then they have formed a Shield Wall. For the Phalanx unit or units in the middle (but not the units on the ends!), all Damage from the other side of the Shield Wall is automatically Parried. This does not spend any of the unit's Actions or Counters; it happens automatically.

Even without a Shield Wall, if a Phalanx unit is in a Squad with at least one other Phalanx unit, and both have Shields or Heavy Shields, then they receive a +1 to all Parry rolls.

A Phalanx Squad cannot be forced to engage in a Melee through a Shield Wall. If they are forced to engage in Melee from an attack on one of their un-Shielded sides, or if they choose to drop the Shield Wall and engage in a Melee voluntarily, the Shield Wall is disrupted and any Phalanx benefits are canceled for as long as they are in Melee.

Specialty: March (+1CP)
If a Marching unit is in a Squad with at least one other Marching unit, they can March in formation, walking at normal speed and ignoring Movement penalties from Body Armor or Heavy Armor. Marching is walking only - units cannot jump, Sprint, or climb in the same turn as Marching, although they can still Bail if necessary. Marching does not cost an Action.


I'll have to try these out with my legionaries and let you know how it goes.
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Re: Newbish n00b questions, MkII

Postby stubby » Thu Aug 28, 2014 2:59 pm

Voin wrote:Thank you! But before you attempt it, you should know that due to the limitations of minifig articulation (they can't lift their arms above their heads), I had to give them "cheat sticks" to make the testudo formation happen.

Good to know. That would have mystified me.

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Re: Newbish n00b questions, MkII

Postby Voin » Thu Aug 28, 2014 3:10 pm

Also, for parts that aren't available on [url=ldraw.org]LDraw[/url], try http://www.digital-bricks.de/en/index.php?site=nil

Not all of them work properly, so it's kinda trial-and-error, but most of them do, so it's worth adding them to an LDraw Library on a case-by-case basis.
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Re: Newbish n00b questions, MkII

Postby Voin » Thu Aug 28, 2014 3:50 pm

Question: For a regular minifig (5" move) rocking both a two-handed weapon (-1" move), and heavy armor (Half-speed), how do we calculate it's move?

A. (5" - 1")/2 = 2"

or

B. (5"/2)-1= 1.5"

Basically, I wondering in which order move penalties should be applied.

In the last battle I played, my friend had a troop like that, and I let him take the more generous option, simply because half-inches were a pain in the as to keep track of on a battle grid. Of course once he slaughtered enough of my guys to make a sea of corpses, it counted as rough terrain, which he couldn't move through (double half-movement penalties), so the joke's on him. :lol:
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Re: Newbish n00b questions, MkII

Postby Battlegrinder » Thu Aug 28, 2014 4:03 pm

Voin wrote:Question: For a regular minifig (5" move) rocking both a two-handed weapon (-1" move), and heavy armor (Half-speed), how do we calculate it's move?

A. (5" - 1")/2 = 2"

or

B. (5"/2)-1= 1.5"

Basically, I wondering in which order move penalties should be applied.

In the last battle I played, my friend had a troop like that, and I let him take the more generous option, simply because half-inches were a pain in the as to keep track of on a battle grid.


I think you just answered your own question. When in doubt, favor the method that results in faster gameplay.


Voin wrote:Of course once he slaughtered enough of my guys to make a sea of corpses, it counted as rough terrain, which he couldn't move through (double half-movement penalties), so the joke's on him. :lol:


Ah, the Valhallan Stratagem. Classic.
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