Automatic fire!

Rules questions, suggestions, and discussion

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Postby Gladius » Fri Jan 18, 2008 7:01 am

Ah okay I'm sorry- misunderstood you.

I do agree with Billingsly however, that's another not-so-necessary roll.
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Postby Sir Billingsly » Fri Jan 18, 2008 7:24 am

Yes, and imagine a whole squad of soldiers with automatic Rifles
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Postby Rayhawk » Fri Jan 18, 2008 1:56 pm

Sir Billingsly wrote:Yes, and imagine a whole squad of soldiers with automatic Rifles

wow, that's a good point, I hadn't even thought of that. How do you handle cone of attack for a Squad?
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Postby King of Brix » Fri Jan 18, 2008 3:57 pm

Same way as you would for a regular unit, only from the standard?
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Postby Sir Billingsly » Fri Jan 18, 2008 5:27 pm

Hi just to make shure that we are talking about the same rules:

AUTOMATIC FIRE Special: CP*2, UR -1


1) aimed burst against a single target or Squad

- UR of weapon is reduced by 1 point
- succesfull skill roll means you have hit
- the difference between the UR and Skill roll is the success grade,
wich is also the damage Bonus for the hit.
- Side Effect: Minifigs or any other destroyable things in less than 1''
distance to the shooting minifig hav a Chance to be hit to.
(my Idea is that, if 1d6 - Sucessgrade is positive then the Minifig takes
a Hit with normal weapon damage)
- when the shooting minifig has aimed at a squad, the defending Player
chooses the Squadmember that will take the Damage, and then the Side
Effects are tested for , for the Squadmembers nearby.

2) Unaimed fire or spray'n'pray

- the Shootist wheels his gun from one side to the other and will hopefully
hit something.
- eyerything in the cone of fire has a chance to be hit, this chance should depend on: size of the target, size of the gun, and the Arc of the cone.


Is all correct?

Greetings Billingsly
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Postby IVhorseman » Fri Jan 18, 2008 6:19 pm

yeah, you're probably right about the too many die rolls. i didn't want some flat rate (like 6 - SG), but i couldn't think of a good way to make the chance of getting hit inversely proportional to the skill of the shot. i like this rule to see if it's positive or not.

as for attacking squads with a cone fire, what about this: you make a finger angle from the gun, and keep widening it until you can cover the entire baseplate that the squad is standing on (corner to corner). if you successfully make the attack roll, EVERY squad member takes the damage? actually now that i see it typed out it looks like overkill, but unless you have a better way of coming up with seeing how many of the squad members actually get hit.
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Postby Gorchek » Mon Jan 21, 2008 12:01 pm

I spent some time thinking about an automatic fire rule for my games that would work with my "weapon problems" house rules. I did come up with something I think could be interesting, and though it would be easy to write down, but it sort of snowballed. I'm posting it anyway, but people with short attention span beware.

Full-Auto
A weapon can use the full-auto rule by doubling its cost.
An full-auto weapon can fire up to its average damage (round down) per turn (ie: a size 1 vehicule weapon has an average damage of 3.5, and can fire up to 3 times on full-auto. A size 2 weapon has an average of 7, so it can fire up to 7 times.)
A weapon with extra barrels add 1 cp to the cost and one extra attack per barrel after the first. (ie: the six barrels of the Claw Crusher machine gun increase its cost by 5. If counted as a size 2 weapon, it gets up to (7 from average damage, +5 for the extra barrels) 12 attacks per round!)
Before any attacks are rolled, the attacker can decide to spread the attacks. To do so:
1.Choose the first target of the spread and decide how many attacks will be made against it.
2a.For range weapon: Choose the next target, and mesure (from the shooter's position) the distance between the two targets. (ie: if the next target is 5" back and 1" to the left from the shooter, it's considered to be only 1" away. On the other hand, if the next target is just 1" behind, but standing on a 3" rock, it's considered to be 3" away.)
2b.For close combat weapon (chainsword, anyone?): Choose the next target. If the attacker has to turn more then 90 degrees to reach it, it counts as more then 1" away from the first.
3.If the distance between the two targets is greater then 1", you lose an attack per inch. It's considered an automatic miss by 1 on a target half way between your targets (you still have to roll the attack, in case its a critical failure). Your opponent can use the "Missed Shots" rule from chapter 5 to make this attack hit another target.
4.Decide how many attacks will be made against the new target (assuming you still have attacks left after walking your weapon to it).
5.If you still have attacks left, return to step 2 for your next target. If a target is larger then 1", and is not your first or last target, you have to attack it as many time as it's size from the shooter's perspective. (ie: you're targeting two minifig and the car between them. If the car is 3" large from your attacker's view, you have to give it 3 attacks before passing to the second minifig.)
You can roll the attack result as you call them, or wait until the're all decided before rolling. In either case, it's best to use something to mark where you place your attack, so you don't get mixed up. Idealy, just take one dice per attack you have, and place them next to your targets to mark your attacks.
Note that the attacks are only rolled after you've decided how many shots you're giving to a victim. Its hard to tell if your target is hit when you're showering them in dirt-kicking lead.
The damage from all the attacks on a single target are added together to pass the armor.
When spreading, the attacks must be rolled in order. If any attack is a critical failure, the gun jammed or overheated and you loose the rest of your attacks. This doesn't apply to attacks against a single target. (ie: a mini is using an assault rifle with 4 attacks per round. If it targets a single vehicule or mini, it doesn't matter if he rolls a 1 on the first or last attack, he can make all it's attack before making a Weapon Problem check. If the attack are spread on four different targets, and the second attack is a 1, then the third and fourth attacks are lost.)
If a critical failure is rolled when using full-auto, you must reroll all the attacks you wanted to make for the Weapon Problems roll. (ie: you decide to use the three attacks of your auto-pistol, and one of them was a 1. You must reroll three skill checks, and if any one of them comes up 1, you're out of ammo. Same thing for the broken weapon check.) Note that you use all the attacks you annonced even if you lost some of them. (ie: you were spreading your three attacks, but rolled a 1 on the second roll. You lost the third attack, but must still roll three dice for the Weapon Problem roll.

So, what do you think?
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Postby IVhorseman » Mon Jan 21, 2008 1:04 pm

i only read about the first half, because walls of single-spaced text are hard to read ;-;.

i like the idea about barrels, but don't you think these weapons are firing way too fast and doing way too much damage? i've got a size 5 gun for example, which averages out to... let's see, 4 X 5 = 20 damage. that's 20 shots total. 20x20 is... 400 damage total. and that's just the average, not the maximum (35 X 20).

ok, i kept reading. i sort of like the whole losing an attack per inch thing, but it still seems way more complicated than anything we've put forward thus far. These DO seem like they're more tailored for something like a minigun though.
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Postby blackwing77 » Mon Jan 21, 2008 1:17 pm

why can't it be so simple as a gunhaving 2 or 3 shots per action?
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Postby IVhorseman » Mon Jan 21, 2008 1:29 pm

blackwing77 wrote:why can't it be so simple as a gunhaving 2 or 3 shots per action?


that's actually a lot LESS simple than it sounds. 2 or 3 shots per action means you have to re-roll every time you want to take a shot: not only is this tedious, it's slow. The Billingsly system however has taken into account the extra damage in an easy to calculate way, and with only one die roll.
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Postby DarkWolf » Mon Jan 21, 2008 2:25 pm

IVhorseman wrote:
blackwing77 wrote:why can't it be so simple as a gunhaving 2 or 3 shots per action?


that's actually a lot LESS simple than it sounds. 2 or 3 shots per action means you have to re-roll every time you want to take a shot: not only is this tedious, it's slow. The Billingsly system however has taken into account the extra damage in an easy to calculate way, and with only one die roll.


Actually, that's really simple. 1 Target, 3 bullets at UR 5. Grab 3d6, roll them at once, remove misses, roll damage.
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Postby IVhorseman » Mon Jan 21, 2008 5:26 pm

ah, but what about multiple targets? and the whole memorizing different fire rates for different gun types?
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Postby blackwing77 » Mon Jan 21, 2008 6:32 pm

1.treat like overkill
2.have easily identible minifigs with auto-guns(everyone with a blue chest, black hand, gun in left han, etc.)
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Postby IVhorseman » Mon Jan 21, 2008 8:02 pm

blackwing77 wrote:1.treat like overkill
2.have easily identible minifigs with auto-guns(everyone with a blue chest, black hand, gun in left han, etc.)


okay, you lost me at overkill =/

and i'm pretty sure identifying automatic weapons won't be too difficult, lol. if someone's got their minifigs armed with automatic assault rifles, they will DAMN well remember that.
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Postby DarkWolf » Mon Jan 21, 2008 8:04 pm

IVhorseman wrote:
blackwing77 wrote:1.treat like overkill
2.have easily identible minifigs with auto-guns(everyone with a blue chest, black hand, gun in left han, etc.)


okay, you lost me at overkill =/

and i'm pretty sure identifying automatic weapons won't be too difficult, lol. if someone's got their minifigs armed with automatic assault rifles, they will DAMN well remember that.


What will it take to please you in regards to automatic gunfire!? Shooting the minifig with an M-16 perhaps!?
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