Squad Combat special rule: "Johnny! NO!"

[IVhorseman]

sure the squad can move. just only through a massive swath.

also, dosen't the targeting range only count if the enemy can hit the banner? that said, no unit can get within 500 studs of it (if it's placed in the middle), and that's quite a distance - moreso than any current weapon in brikwars.

[DarkWolf]

I thought of something else for this rule. I'm not sure which way to go with it though, so I'll just post here and see the response: If an entire squad is wiped out, and a medix comes along and rebuilds one of them, does that trooper still make the Last Squadie Standing roll? And if so, should he only do it if the Medix fails to save the rest of the squad?

Also, IVhorsemen, your correct, because the total distance, when translated into Junky American Measuring, is over 13 feet. And thanks alot for that, because now I'm going to spend my entire Saturnalia break trying to build a gun capable of shooting that far.

[Rayhawk]

also, dosen't the targeting range only count if the enemy can hit the banner? that said, no unit can get within 500 studs of it (if it's placed in the middle), and that's quite a distance - moreso than any current weapon in brikwars.

Ah, I can see where the rules are unclear - 8.1 makes it sound like range to hit the Squad is measured to the banner, where in fact it's only the outward range of the Squad's attacks that are centered on the banner. 8.6 is a little less ambiguous:

targeting a Squad as a whole is much easier than targenting individuals - as long as an attacker can target any unit or object within the Squad, or even the Squad Plate itself, it can make an Attack on the Squad.

I'll need to go through and clarify some passages. There's still a lot of clarification and illustration work left to do in chapter 8, more so than any of the other chapters.

I thought of something else for this rule. I'm not sure which way to go with it though, so I'll just post here and see the response: If an entire squad is wiped out, and a medix comes along and rebuilds one of them, does that trooper still make the Last Squadie Standing roll? And if so, should he only do it if the Medix fails to save the rest of the squad?

Ah now here we go! This is a good question. I haven't decided for sure yet, but my feeling is that if one guy is revived, he will definitely say NOOOOOOO!!!!! and gain the immediate bonus. If the medic revives a second guy, then the first guy feels better, no longer says NOOOOOOOOOO!!!!! at the beginning of every turn, and no longer has the bonus. This makes it an interesting choice for the Medik, to decide if it's worth losing the bonus to bring back soldiers. (In most cases it'll be worth it, but it's still an interesting choice.)

Now if the soldiers are revived directly back into the same Squad, then it's like their Squad was never broken up, and one of them can get Last Man Standing AGAIN when their numbers are dropped down far enough. My belief is that having something like this happen would be totally sweet.

[IVhorseman]

actually it'd be alot better/funnier if a revived member only freaks out when he learns his companion's fate via a visible corpse. he gets brought back in the field and see's his captain dead, he's gonna freak out and rip up 20 or 30 units. if he wakes up in a military hospital, he won't know for sure unless he sees his squad dead. the natural reaction is to break anything that moves.

[DarkWolf]

actually it'd be alot better/funnier if a revived member only freaks out when he learns his companion's fate via a visible corpse. he gets brought back in the field and see's his captain dead, he's gonna freak out and rip up 20 or 30 units. if he wakes up in a military hospital, he won't know for sure unless he sees his squad dead. the natural reaction is to break anything that moves.

Well, if he wakes up in a military hospital, and the doctors tell him his squad is dead, I believe his natural reaction would be to lay on his side and get really depressed. Which makes me think of a small, 1d6 table to draw up here: Ker-Depressed table

1: Unit decides to commit suicide, and will start trying to kill himself in any way possible.
2: Unit starts crying like a little girl.
3: Unit sobs silently, trying to stay manly.
4: Unit does nothing except breath and blink
5: Unit cannot believe squad is gone, and starts thinking up plasuable ways in which his squad mates might have survived
6: Unit gets out of bed, grabs the nearest weapon, and goes back to where his squad was wiped out to see if it's true or not.

[Almighty Benny]

so in this table, 1 and 2 would leave the unit out of commission, 3 and 4 would not affect him in any physical sense, and 5 and 6 would have him go kick some ass.

Maybe with a roll of 5 he gets a movement bonus and with 6 he gets a movement and an extra attack per turn or something like that.

[DarkWolf]

Well, the unit is pretty much FUBAR unless he rolls a 6. Then he runs towards where his squad was wiped out to see if they're really dead or not. So, perhaps he can't make any attacks but get's an extra inch of movement, which would give him 6" of movement, and since he can't attack you use the action to Sprint and get another 2" out of him, giving him 8 useless-for-combat inches to move. When he finds his squad mates as luncheon meat, then he makes the Johnny! No! roll.

[Jemulov]

From what I read, the larger the squad the least likely the last remaining member would go apeshit.

I kind of like it, but I would make it more of a die roll chance for it to happen.

For example, if you have a four-man squad and they all get wiped out except for 1 guy, then roll a 1d6:

6 — Unit becomes enraged at the loss of teammates, adrenaline kicks into overload and the unit gets the +2" movement, 1 extra attack.
5–2 — Unit gets no bonuses.
1 — Unit is completely overcome with the horrors of war. Unit gives up, goes home and becomes a member of the Green Party. Unit can only preform defensive maneuvers and attempts to retreat off the battlefield.

I think it should get progressively more difficult to get enraged over the death of squad members because when a squad is bigger, the less each guy knows everyone else and so is less likely to go bananas when say "that one guy... Paul..? no... Dan... yea Dan." whom you haven't spoken to except when you're in the chow line together at the barracks dies.

So either increase the die size or amount of dice rolled. For example, a 1d6 for a squad with 4+ members 2d6 for a squad with 7+ members 3d6 for a squad with 13+ members and so on then roll to see if your number is higher than half of the original squad size then assign. That's just an idea, and I'm already thinking about ways to exploit it so it's probably not very good.

I say the larger the squad, the more anonymity everyone has and thusly is less likely to get all choked up and more likely to do nothing.

[IVhorseman]

ah but that balances itself out. the larger the squad, the more friendly carnage it is, leading to even MORE rage, offset by annonymity.

basically, here's how it goes: you got a two man squad, the guys are best friends. if bill dies, ted goes bananas. you got a million man squad and one guy's left, then those damn dirty apes just killed 999,999 of your kind, and there's no WAY you're just letting that go. nationalism ftw!

[Houndis]

I really like where this is going. Maybe it's because I like Squads, carnage and random bonuses!

Did I understand this right: squad must have at least 4 members for the Johnny! NooOOOoo! -bonus? Does it make any difference, if the squad is full of Heroes or Dimmys?

IVhorseman has a good point. You want to avenge your one best friend, but you also want to avenge when half a million of your comrades have been killed (propably a nuclear bomb, so this guys a mutant already).

[Muskotti]

This Johnny! Noooooo! -rule sounds fun. It's right from movies and so on.

But what about paratroopers? A squad formed in the beginning of the game, all guys alike. Then they jump to enemy territory and get separated.
Then, only one guy survives, but doesn't see his friends' bodies. Should he get the bonus right away or only if he realizes the merciless end of his group?

And what about he manages to find one of his friends, witch gets killed, but the rest of the group is still alive. Should he get the bonus in sutch situation?

Johnny! Nooo! -rule works fine with other squads, but paratroopers seem to be a fudgeable spot.

[IVhorseman]

Johnny! Nooo! -rule works fine with other squads, but paratroopers seem to be a fudgeable spot.

exactly. besides, if a squad gets seperated, then they're no longer considered the same squad anymore (according to brikwars). that is, unless you're moving them with a MASSIVE baseplate.

[King of Brix]

True... But by paratroopers, one may imply that the squad parachuted from the plane, all holding hands via baseplate. Then, they all move as a regular squad, and got mauled by a horde of Dim-Jaws, and only one remained. He would still get the bonus, correct?

[IVhorseman]

obviously? they're still a squad. had they become seperate, they lose squad status, and thus no longer care about eachother (as much).

[Rayhawk]

Yeah, I can't wait to explain that in a rules supplement. "These men are more than Squad-mates, they're family; any one of them would give their life for his brothers. Unless he leaves the Squad for a minute, then who cares."