A Conversation About the Control of Political Power by the R

[Natalya]

It took a few pages, but we have gone downhill enough to put this thread into Thunderdumb. But I'm keeping it here for now. Because I can.

[Ross_Varn]

Told you.

also this should be moved to Brikthulumation Thunderdumb because it's only going to end up there anyway

But you're doing it because I said that, aren't you?

[OneEye589]

Hey, this isn't about a religious debate at all, and don't make it into a religious debate. This is about the different sects and denominations.

Whiteagle, we know Tzan isn't a Catholic, but he was RAISED Catholic with different teachings from you. His teachings were in line with THE CATHOLIC CHURCH. Your teachings are in line with your own SECT OF CHRISTIANITY. You may call it Catholic, but it is not Catholic as anyone else besides those in your own church would call it.

The only people who would argue with the infallibility of the pope would be those who are not Catholic. The links you posted state within them that papal infallibility is a belief of Catholics. You don't believe it, therefore you aren't Catholic as the world sees it.

I'm not criticizing your beliefs, but just because you were raised using that name doesn't mean that's what it is to the rest of the world. To you, Catholic means something different, but you need to realize to everyone else, you are just another sect of Christianity and not Catholic, which really isn't that big of a deal.

The beliefs are your beliefs, and you're obviously happy about them and everything. Why is it such a big deal that you call yourself Catholic? A rose by any other name would smell just a sweet. If you're happy with your stance, then go for it, but society's name of pagan Christian doesn't have to be as derogatory as you're making it.

[Keldoclock]

Okay all of you, I'm seriously disappointed in everyone here.

You cannot prove OR disprove the existence of any deity or deities. Don't try, you can't. Don't argue about it, it is pointless.

I was once an Orthodox Christian, and am now an atheist. I do not think the Bible(s) is(are) intended to be read literally, but seeing as the lessons contained within it(them) are the basis for Catholicism(and a few other religious sects), it makes sense that the Catholics would try to stick pretty close to them.

Orthodox Christians can have women be part of the priesthood. It has been that way for thousands of years. There are many differences between every possible version of any religion(or the lack thereof), both for organizations and for the personal theist(or atheist)


Seriously guys, what the fuck? I thought you were smarter than to try pulling this shit around here.

[Whiteagle]

The only people who would argue with the infallibility of the pope would be those who are not Catholic. The links you posted state within them that papal infallibility is a belief of Catholics. You don't believe it, therefore you aren't Catholic as the world sees it.

No, in fact one of the links I posted stated that belief that the Pope is completely infallible is a stereotype of Catholics.
Maybe I confused my Late Priest ideology that priests should be able to wed with woman being able to become Deacons, it has been awhile after all and both would be logical solutions for the crippling shortage of clergymen.

Still, I'm a fucking Roman Catholic, alright.
I'll admit I'm not a very pious one, but saying that I'm not is like saying I'm not of German/Irish blood, or NOT AN ACTUAL IOWAN!
It's insulting to have people, who aren't Catholics, to tell me that I'm not a Catholic because I don't conform to a fucking stereotype!

[Ross_Varn]

Seriously guys, what the fuck? I thought you were smarter than to try pulling this shit around here.

*points at Whiteagle* It's all his fault, Keldo! He punched me first!

No, he kicked me-

You're lying!

No, you're lying!

Aaaaa!

[Ham701]

AN ACTUAL IOWAN!

Well there's your problem. You live in a land surrounded by corn and have probably never seen a real mountain in your life. And I know for a fact that stereotype about Iowa is true.

[Whiteagle]

AN ACTUAL IOWAN!

Well there's your problem. You live in a land surrounded by corn and have probably never seen a real mountain in your life. And I know for a fact that stereotype about Iowa is true.

SEE!!!
See the type of ignorance stereotypes breed?
YOU!
FORGOT!
THE SOYBEANS!!!

[Ham701]

AN ACTUAL IOWAN!

Well there's your problem. You live in a land surrounded by corn and have probably never seen a real mountain in your life. And I know for a fact that stereotype about Iowa is true.

SEE!!!
See the type of ignorance stereotypes breed?
YOU!
FORGOT!
THE SOYBEANS!!!

Hardly an important crop compared to corn, which is in most foods.

[OneEye589]

The only people who would argue with the infallibility of the pope would be those who are not Catholic. The links you posted state within them that papal infallibility is a belief of Catholics. You don't believe it, therefore you aren't Catholic as the world sees it.

No, in fact one of the links I posted stated that belief that the Pope is completely infallible is a stereotype of Catholics.
Maybe I confused my Late Priest ideology that priests should be able to wed with woman being able to become Deacons, it has been awhile after all and both would be logical solutions for the crippling shortage of clergymen.

Still, I'm a fucking Roman Catholic, alright.
I'll admit I'm not a very pious one, but saying that I'm not is like saying I'm not of German/Irish blood, or NOT AN ACTUAL IOWAN!
It's insulting to have people, who aren't Catholics, to tell me that I'm not a Catholic because I don't conform to a fucking stereotype!

But you being of German/Irish descent and being from Iowa are both things that have exact criteria, being you need to have German/Irish blood and live in Iowa. We aren't drawing off stereotypes, we're drawing off of facts. Catholics are Catholics because they conform to the ideas Catholics have. Period. That's it. If they didn't all conform to the same ideas, then they wouldn't have a name for it. They wouldn't be a group. It's as simple as that.

I'm not saying your beliefs are bullshit, and I'm not trying to say they're wrong or anything either. I'm just saying instead of calling yourself an unpious Catholic, call yourself a righteous Christian.

Now I'm going to ask for a straight-forward answer. Does your specific denomination of "Catholicism" practice ALL of the same ideas practiced by the vast majority of Catholicism? Does your denomination believe all of the same things? Instead of giving some angry answer accusing us of having no idea what we're talking about, how about a straight-forward one. No one's trying to disrespect, we're just talking facts here.

[Whiteagle]

Hardly an important crop compared to corn, which is in most foods.

Bah, ingorant city folk.
Don't even know that most Corn in the US is used for animal feed, where most Soybeans are used for oil and meal.

Now I'm going to ask for a straight-forward answer. Does your specific denomination of "Catholicism" practice ALL of the same ideas practiced by the vast majority of Catholicism? Does your denomination believe all of the same things? Instead of giving some angry answer accusing us of having no idea what we're talking about, how about a straight-forward one. No one's trying to disrespect, we're just talking facts here.

OneEye, my Church is a Roman Catholic Parish which is part of the Roman Catholic Diocese of Davenport.
It is a CATHOLIC CHURCH, alright?

[OneEye589]

Now I'm going to ask for a straight-forward answer. Does your specific denomination of "Catholicism" practice ALL of the same ideas practiced by the vast majority of Catholicism? Does your denomination believe all of the same things? Instead of giving some angry answer accusing us of having no idea what we're talking about, how about a straight-forward one. No one's trying to disrespect, we're just talking facts here.

OneEye, my Church is a Roman Catholic Parish which is part of the Roman Catholic Diocese of Davenport.
It is a CATHOLIC CHURCH, alright?

That's not what I asked. I'm also not asking about your church, I was asking about you.

I could go to that church every day if I wanted to. That doesn't make me Catholic.

Does your specific denomination of "Catholicism" practice ALL of the same ideas practiced by the vast majority of Catholicism? Does your denomination believe all of the same things?

[Whiteagle]

That's not what I asked. I'm also not asking about your church, I was asking about you.

I could go to that church every day if I wanted to. That doesn't make me Catholic.

Does your specific denomination of "Catholicism" practice ALL of the same ideas practiced by the vast majority of Catholicism? Does your denomination believe all of the same things?

*Having grown tired of OneEye's inability to differentiate "denomination" from "personal believes" and his general thinkheadedness, Whiteagle sets upon him with a Nine Iron and a Squeaky Mallet.*

STUDS FOR THE STUD GOD!!!

[stubby]

Well I've seen no evidence that suggest Rome has anything against such opinions.
Maybe it's the opinions of those Nuns who taught you that you are being confused by.

I've got a big thick book on my shelf published by the Catholic Church entitled The Catechism of the Catholic Church, it's a good place to start. It's got an extensive bibliography with reference to all the encyclicals describing in great detail all the many, many ways in which Rome has come out definitively against such opinions. I'm not going to say you're a shitty Catholic for not knowing even the most basic tenets of your own religion, since that applies to basically all Catholics everywhere nowadays.

On the other hand, if you have to conform to Catholic ideas, practices, and lifestyle in order to be a "genuine" Catholic, then the world contains a grand total of zero Catholics. Nobody actually lives up to those.

Papal infallibility applies to certain papal declarations of formal dogma. He's not infallible every minute of the day, but that doesn't mean papal infallibility isn't a real thing.

If a priest has beliefs and opinions that contradict official Catholic catechism or dogma, then he is wrong within the context of Catholic catechism and dogma. Being against dogma is against dogma, you can't rationalize your way out of that. Advocating alternate positions can be a different story however. He can advocate for something like female priesthood while still remaining obedient to the decisions of the church hierarchy and believing that whatever they decide is the correct choice, much like prosecuting and defense attorneys can act as honest advocates for their clients regardless of their personal belief in their innocence or guilt, or the role of the Devil's Advocate in canon law.

[OneEye589]

^ What he said, as we've been saying the whole time.

But of course, now that Stubby's here, everyone's going to agree with him because he's the most brilliant of us all.