Father sets the Record Straight

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Re: Father sets the Record Straight

Postby Zupponn » Sun Feb 12, 2012 2:07 am

aoffan23 wrote:
Zupponn wrote:
aoffan23 wrote:My sister talks back a lot to my mom now, and my mom still tries the "talk to her about it" method. It's not working very well. As soon as she starts to talk to her, my sis will just bitch back at her, and there will be a big back-and-forth that doesn't make any progress at all.

Sounds familiar, except that my sister is almost 18, so my mom hitting her really isn't an option any more.


My sister is almost 20. So yeah...

I think it's just a woman thing.
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Re: Father sets the Record Straight

Postby Whiteagle » Sun Feb 12, 2012 2:13 am

aoffan23 wrote:
Bragallot wrote:
IVhorseman wrote:What ever happened to the good old days of just beating the hell out of your kids?


I think it's called civilization.


If your family's style of parenting breeds people that say shit like this, then you've just made a big point against it.

[Disclaimer: I am only 17, so I'm not claiming to have "grown up" to be like anything. I'm just going to say how I see things at this point.]

My household has always been very lenient in terms of behaviour. If my sister or I did something wrong, we'd receive a good talking-to and we'd get it. However, the punishment did increase as the severity of the bad behaviour did. There were plenty of groundings and takings away of things, and I even had my bedroom door taken off of its hinges before because I was warned not to slam it anymore. But when things got really bad, we got spanked. That's just the way it was. And guess what? We didn't do the same shit again, so it obviously worked as a disciplining tool. Plenty of people are against spanking, but those people clearly didn't grow up in a house where that happened. My sister talks back a lot to my mom now, and my mom still tries the "talk to her about it" method. It's not working very well. As soon as she starts to talk to her, my sis will just bitch back at her, and there will be a big back-and-forth that doesn't make any progress at all.

I agree with OneEye and IV on this one, the father used his authority effectively. He laid down the law because his daughter was being disrespectful to her entire family, and the person who takes time out of her day to do work that most kids have to do themselves. She should be damn grateful of her parents for the life they've given her. As for putting the video on the internet, I still think it was a valid punishment. What good would it have done if he just shot the computer in front of her? He paid for it, so it's not like he's destroying her property. The only lesson it would teach is not to abuse her computer privileges. This way, he shows that she shouldn't publicly disrespect and humiliate the people that give you everything, on top of that.

Yeah, while I don't agree with my parents use of corporal punishment, that stems more from my parents unfitness to employ it as a disciplinary measure then the practice itself.

For instance, my father threatening to chop my penis off was horribly mishandled application of one of the tenets of corporal punishment; that the threat of pain can be as effective, if not more so, of a deterrent for inappropriate behavior as the pain itself, thus cementing the negative consequences of an action.

My dad once reminisced about how, when he was a boy and he did something wrong, his father would tell him to go out, cut a switch from a tree, and wait in the barn for his lashing while my grandpa finished whatever farm chore he was working on like Bonn-o-Tron.
According to my dad, the waiting was probably the worst part, probably due to all the anxiety that builds up in anticipation of the pain.

In my opinion, that is a fine example of how such punishment should be done, as not only most of the re-enforcing trauma psychological in nature and the wrongdoer given time to reflect on their misdeeds, but also allows the disciplinarian themselves time to think and compose themselves.

Now, the problem with my father's "Imma going to chop your dick off with this meat cleaver I ever hear about you whipping your tallywacker out in public again" speech is that he, well, failed to acknowledge that my peeing in a ditch as the school-bus rolled up was an emulation of a similar bad habit of his; pissing in the driveway whenever he gets out of the car and needs to go.

That... and being coolly composed about mutilating your grade-school aged son's reproductive organs with cutlery does nothing to convince him that you're not a FUCKING PSYCHOPATH!
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Re: Father sets the Record Straight

Postby Bragallot » Sun Feb 12, 2012 4:48 am

"Some parents are worse, so this guy is in his right" is all I get from that.

Yeah some muslims murder their daughters because they hook up with an 'unworthy european' too. This kind of reasoning is flawed, that there's always worse people doesn't give anyone the right to do something wrong 'as long as it's not as bad as them'. Logical, but it's amazing how often people still fall into this trap.

OneEye589 wrote:You're trying to say my experiences and other people's experiences don't compare to this when you really have no grounds to stand on like Bonn-o-Tron.


I do. You're saying it's the same, while it's not. You're saying you'd prefer it, well that's easy to say when you're on the outside looking in, if everyone was honest with themselves I would be sure they could all admit (to themselves) no one wants to be this girl right now.

Grinding my argument down to 1 line while you've ignored 9/10 of my last serious post is also way to go man, way to go.

Some of my friends had parents who did what sounds to be the same as yours. Some turned out going to the hospital for drug overdoses, dropping out of school, becoming pr0n stars, and beating their girlfriends.


The right general approach doesn't guarantee success. You can still fail at the proper execution. The fact you're using the word 'some' alone illustrates this perfectly.

However, I had discipline which I see as worse than shown in the video and I was in the top ten of my class, graduating from college, and have a job.


Well this fits into what I just said and society in general. The way society wants us to be is reflected in education as well. You ever remember George Carlin's quote, 'they do not want intelligent, critical citizens, they want obedient workers!' There's way more to developing your personality than being 'succesful' in life, in fact many of the people who are most successful at school are social wrecks. My own sister was the top of her class, she was a difficult teenager, and my parents never went through extreme measures to 'punish' her.

Obviously, a majority of people think this is okay and may have had similar/worse punishments when they were kids, judging from the YouTube video.


The majority of people are also dumb as fuck. It used to be okay to send your kids off to work in the mines, too. The majority-argument is really the weakest you could have brought up. If we could bring everything down to majority, arguing would be easy. Unfortunately majority doesn't mean shit.

aoffan23 wrote:
Bragallot wrote:
IVhorseman wrote:What ever happened to the good old days of just beating the hell out of your kids?


I think it's called civilization.


If your family's style of parenting breeds people that say shit like this, then you've just made a big point against it.


When the guy above me asks himself 'what ever happened to the good old days of just beating the hell out of your kids?' I could rest my case here :lol: Again, discipline by fear of violence is very much like the discipline taught to slaves and not constructive at all, if not identical. All you've been saying is 'hurr, she won't do that again!' By taking it out on someone and frustrating a person like that you only breed more frustration, and frustration doesn't make a very good guide in life.

The rest of your post is off-topic, we're talking about the issue of the dad here, not the fact you receive(d?) spankings, 'cos that's not what this is about and I'm not 'attacking' an entire parent community, just this retarded redneck.

This way, he shows that she shouldn't publicly disrespect and humiliate the people that give you everything, on top of that.


By giving the right example and doing exactly the same thing? :lol: Right. I've told you before, if you think your duty as a parent doesn't go further than and your authority is received by 'giving your children everything', then you've got it wrong.

Try this: next time you want to hook up a girl, you want her to love, respect and get to know you, right? I'm anticipating the 'no I'd just want to put my dick in there' jokes so we don't have to waste time on those. Try just giving her stuff she wants, but do not talk to her more than is required. After you've given her a boatload of crap, go to her and say 'on your knees bitch, or I will slap the hell out of you! I gave you that stuff, so you're mine now!' See if she comes to respect and understand you and have respect for your situation, or think of you as a person she can relate to, trust things with, and get counsel from, which is the core of what people need in relationships, not a 'you give me stuff so I have to obey you relation'. I think there's a fair chance she won't have sympathy for your viewpoint.
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Re: Father sets the Record Straight

Postby OneEye589 » Sun Feb 12, 2012 11:39 am

Bragallot wrote:
OneEye589 wrote:You're trying to say my experiences and other people's experiences don't compare to this when you really have no grounds to stand on like Bonn-o-Tron.


I do. You're saying it's the same, while it's not. You're saying you'd prefer it, well that's easy to say when you're on the outside looking in, if everyone was honest with themselves I would be sure they could all admit (to themselves) no one wants to be this girl right now.

You're right, at this time, I would not want to be in her shoes. If I did the same thing she did when I was her age, I would have SEVERELY wanted to be in her shoes. She got off easy by my dad's standards. Again, you're comparing your experience of what seems to be no physical/mental punishment to that of one that's you're assuming is only that.

Some of my friends had parents who did what sounds to be the same as yours. Some turned out going to the hospital for drug overdoses, dropping out of school, becoming pr0n stars, and beating their girlfriends.


The right general approach doesn't guarantee success. You can still fail at the proper execution. The fact you're using the word 'some' alone illustrates this perfectly.

I was comparing the two. You forgot the part where I said the same about my upbringing.

However, I had discipline which I see as worse than shown in the video and I was in the top ten of my class, graduating from college, and have a job.


Well this fits into what I just said and society in general. The way society wants us to be is reflected in education as well. You ever remember George Carlin's quote, 'they do not want intelligent, critical citizens, they want obedient workers!' There's way more to developing your personality than being 'succesful' in life, in fact many of the people who are most successful at school are social wrecks. My own sister was the top of her class, she was a difficult teenager, and my parents never went through extreme measures to 'punish' her.

And you're saying people with a "good" upbringing can't be a social wreck? I don't understand what this has to do with anything. You kind of took it out of context, as I was comparing what I had done compared to the pr0n star from my school, the countless people who dropped out of highschool, and those doing drugs.

Obviously, a majority of people think this is okay and may have had similar/worse punishments when they were kids, judging from the YouTube video.


The majority of people are also dumb as fuck. It used to be okay to send your kids off to work in the mines, too. The majority-argument is really the weakest you could have brought up. If we could bring everything down to majority, arguing would be easy. Unfortunately majority doesn't mean shit.

So do you think the majority of people were raised the way you were raised, or the way I was raised? Do you think the majority of people had an upbringing that scarred them and made them into bad people? If they were raised as you were, then you're refuting your own point.

I think that as a kid, your parents are giving you everything (especially if you don't have a job, as this girl). They're giving you a home, food, any other items you have; they all belong to your parents. Why is it a problem to set guidelines for how other people use your stuff? The argument about giving stuff to a girl and then asking for respect doesn't really float, as those things don't keep her alive. Also, I'm pretty sure these parents, when asking this girl to do anything prior to this point said the equivalent of "on your knees, bitch."

But if you want to use that as an example, what would you do if someone had gotten you a house, food for 10 years, a computer, TV, whatever else this girl had, then asked you to sweep the floors? Would you complain about it to all your friends?
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Re: Father sets the Record Straight

Postby Bragallot » Sun Feb 12, 2012 12:22 pm

If I did the same thing she did when I was her age, I would have SEVERELY wanted to be in her shoes. She got off easy by my dad's standards. Again, you're comparing your experience of what seems to be no physical/mental punishment to that of one that's you're assuming is only that.


I already told you I do not care if your dad was a worse asshole than this guy. It justifies and means nothing towards my judgement of Jefferson Davis or whatever the dad's name was. So apparently you define education by 'means of punishment?', as if there is nothing else to it, no other way of teaching your kids anything than through punishment. That's clearly what this dad thought too. He fails at being a parent because he can't see past that, and that no doubt was the start of all his troubles too. Knowing what is wrong is equally important to knowing why it is wrong, and any alternatives. Who has the best chance of convincing (truly convincing you, not simply making you do it) you of anything? Someone who uses solely authority to oblige you to do as he says, or someone who has logic and arguments to back up his opinion? I think so too. If you go to buy anything, do you trust the seller who says 'we have the best product because we are the best company and we control the market, if you don't believe us sod off!'

You also assume I'm saying the daughter was right in her behaviour, which I'm not :roll: Still, doesn't mean the father is taking the right approach either.

You're also overlooking the fact it is the parent's duty by law to keep their children alive, keeping them alive is not 'a privilege' and you can be sent to jail for forsaking your duties as a parent.

The whole 'I keep you alive, and for just that reason, you will obey me or I will punish you' logic does not work and is again, the same as slavery. Parents like this dad fail at actually teaching their kids anything. What got him into this shit in the first place, you think? His great method of education?

You could still say 'it is his property', so yes, he could take it from her, but not put 7 fuckin' bullets in it in front of the internet while aggressively addressing his daughter between rounds.

I also think it's interesting the guy is throwing shit around in nature instead of putting it in a garbage can. He replies to his daughter's wrong behaviour by doing exactly the same thing, and worse. He is such a good example-setter who really shows how things should be done instead, opening the daughter's eyes for alternatives.
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Re: Father sets the Record Straight

Postby OneEye589 » Sun Feb 12, 2012 1:36 pm

Bragallot wrote:I already told you I do not care if your dad was a worse asshole than this guy. It justifies and means nothing towards my judgement of Jefferson Davis or whatever the dad's name was.

And that's not the point. The point is that I turned out fine, as well as other people. I also don't think my dad is an asshole. I think he taught me in a way that worked.

So apparently you define education by 'means of punishment?', as if there is nothing else to it, no other way of teaching your kids anything than through punishment. That's clearly what this dad thought too. He fails at being a parent because he can't see past that, and that no doubt was the start of all his troubles too.

It's quite an assumption to claim that this is the ONLY thing this father does with his children or has done. How do you know that this is an accurate interpretation of his ENTIRE time as a parent?

Knowing what is wrong is equally important to knowing why it is wrong, and any alternatives. Who has the best chance of convincing (truly convincing you, not simply making you do it) you of anything? Someone who uses solely authority to oblige you to do as he says, or someone who has logic and arguments to back up his opinion? I think so too. If you go to buy anything, do you trust the seller who says 'we have the best product because we are the best company and we control the market, if you don't believe us sod off!'

I would if they had proven that they were there to take care of me. Why do you assume it's either one or the other? Can't someone use authority AND logic? A person can make authority by use of logic, which is what this man seems to be doing. He says "I have given you these things and have allowed you a pretty good lifestyle, but I can take that away if you are disrespectful." Seems logical to me.

You also assume I'm saying the daughter was right in her behaviour, which I'm not :roll:

I never said anything of the sort. I don't know where you got that from at all.

You're also overlooking the fact it is the parent's duty by law to keep their children alive, keeping them alive is not 'a privilege' and you can be sent to jail for forsaking your duties as a parent.

Do they have to give them computers? Do they have to give them cell phones? Dirtbikes? Video games? Anything besides sanitary conditions and sustenance?
And just because it's law to do those things doesn't mean that they would have to do it.

The whole 'I keep you alive, and for just that reason, you will obey me or I will punish you' logic does not work and is again, the same as slavery. Parents like this dad fail at actually teaching their kids anything. What got him into this shit in the first place, you think? His great method of education?

It's not the same as slavery, as the girl could leave. You're also again assuming that this is the only way this dad has tried to teach his kids. This is supposedly the first time he's done this, and with the big deal he's making of it, she's not had a punishment this bad before.

You could still say 'it is his property', so yes, he could take it from her, but not put 7 fuckin' bullets in it in front of the internet while aggressively addressing his daughter between rounds.

He's not aggressively addressing his daughter. He only talks about the gun and rounds, then says "after what you said to your mom, she told me to put one in there for her, too." How is that an attack on her in any way?

I also think it's interesting the guy is throwing shit around in nature instead of putting it in a garbage can. He replies to his daughter's wrong behaviour by doing exactly the same thing, and worse. He is such a good example-setter who really shows how things should be done instead, opening the daughter's eyes for alternatives.

I think you're drawing assumptions again. You really think he just left the laptop out there without cleaning it up? You're judging everything about this man from one video.
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Re: Father sets the Record Straight

Postby Tzan » Sun Feb 12, 2012 1:44 pm

* tldr last few pages *

:roll:
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Re: Father sets the Record Straight

Postby Silverdream » Sun Feb 12, 2012 1:48 pm

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This thread is now about penises.
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Re: Father sets the Record Straight

Postby IVhorseman » Sun Feb 12, 2012 2:12 pm

Bragallot wrote:
IVhorseman wrote:What ever happened to the good old days of just beating the hell out of your kids?


I think it's called civilization.


That's weird, because civilization's been running strong for a few thousand years now and I'm pretty sure that kids got beat the whole time.

Also, that chart does not at all give a proper definition on what a counter-argument OR what a contradiction is. I also don't at all understand why your chart is pyramid shaped...

Xenoman wrote:Let's see if anyone gets worked up...


Congratulations Brag! A winner is you! You got all worked up because you think that we're arguing that parents are infalliable and kids should follow them blindly. We may be on the father's side this time, but only because the daughter's post screams grade-A dumbass teenager. We haven't all been brainwashed "full circle" to believe that the word of daddy is law, we just know an ungrateful dumbass when we see one. Hell, we didn't even technically have to see her!
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Re: Father sets the Record Straight

Postby Keldoclock » Sun Feb 12, 2012 2:26 pm

The chart is a pyramid to demonstrate the superiority of the higher strategies.
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Re: Father sets the Record Straight

Postby OneEye589 » Sun Feb 12, 2012 2:33 pm

Yeaaaaaa, usually pyramids need all the pieces to be a pyramid. Like the food pyramid. It's all important, but what you need to most of is on the bottom.
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Re: Father sets the Record Straight

Postby Zupponn » Sun Feb 12, 2012 2:34 pm

There's so much text that I don't want/care to read in this thread.
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Re: Father sets the Record Straight

Postby Keldoclock » Sun Feb 12, 2012 3:02 pm

Zupponn wrote:There's so much text that I don't want/care to read in this thread.


I think I'd agree. New forum rule?

18. No Serious Discussion
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Re: Father sets the Record Straight

Postby OneEye589 » Sun Feb 12, 2012 3:11 pm

Where's the fun in that?
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Re: Father sets the Record Straight

Postby Bragallot » Sun Feb 12, 2012 3:12 pm

I also don't think my dad is an asshole. I think he taught me in a way that worked.


Yeah, he also taught you you had to believe that, or you would be punished. There's no room for critical thought and thus development of the mind left at all. We want obedient workers! Not critical, intelligent citizens! Since when is this about your dad anyway? Do you have a problem you need to talk about?

How do you know that this is an accurate interpretation of his ENTIRE time as a parent?


How do you know it's not? You're missing the point (again) I'm judging his act here.

The father fails because he says what is wrong and right, with no alternatives or compromise, or room for dialogue. Why do you believe the daughter got so frustrated in the first place? Because of his great parenting skills?

I never said anything of the sort. I don't know where you got that from at all.


Go sign yourself down for the youngest case of amnesia ever.

But if you want to use that as an example, what would you do if someone had gotten you a house, food for 10 years, a computer, TV, whatever else this girl had, then asked you to sweep the floors? Would you complain about it to all your friends?


:roll:

And just because it's law to do those things doesn't mean that they would have to do it.


I can see you've been educated, really, really well :lol:

It's not the same as slavery, as the girl could leave.


So apparently, you're allowed to be such a bad parent to convince your 16 year old kids leave the house, everything is justified by the power the 16 year old has of setting out to create her own life :lol:

You're also again assuming that this is the only way this dad has tried to teach his kids. This is supposedly the first time he's done this, and with the big deal he's making of it, she's not had a punishment this bad before.


Irrelevant. I'm judging what he did here.

He's not aggressively addressing his daughter. He only talks about the gun and rounds, then says "after what you said to your mom, she told me to put one in there for her, too." How is that an attack on her in any way?


It is humiliating, aggressive, and yes, even childish. If I were to walk up into your room and put some rounds in your computer screen, you'd be pretty pissed off. If I did it while calling your mother a whore and said I'm going to put an extra bullet in there for every guy who did her, you'd be even more pissed off.

I think you're drawing assumptions again. You really think he just left the laptop out there without cleaning it up? You're judging everything about this man from one video.


I don't mean the laptop. During the video, he's throwing the paper away and some other thing he's fiddling with too. He also did the same thing his daughter did. What a great example-setter this man is, truly.

As for drawing assumptions, a lot of the people who agreed with him posted 'he was the greatest dad ever'. For all we know, he might be a real asshole around the house. We do not know. We do know however that he's a man willing to use a gun to intimidate his child. And you're accusing me of drawing assumptions?

Also, that chart does not at all give a proper definition on what a counter-argument OR what a contradiction is. I also don't at all understand why your chart is pyramid shaped...


It's not even my chart you dumbass.

You're also assuming I think the daughter was in her right. I think the daughter is a stupid cunt too, but it's her father's duty to make her into something better, and this is not going to achieve it. She'll probably be bullied for life and forever be known as 'that girl whose crazy dad shot her laptop'. Way to give your children a future.

Might I suggest that every parent starts behaving this way? Soon, Youtube will be full of videos of parents shooting their kid's stuff, and the world will be a better place. The weapon industry would also rejoice and the ict sector would have to double their production, we might even solve the economical crisis this way.
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