samurai VS. knights

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What is the best type of armor samurai or knights?

samurai
14
56%
knights
11
44%
 
Total votes : 25

Postby IVhorseman » Fri May 02, 2008 12:20 pm

Generally, yes, but samurai also wielded arquebi in later years (mostly after it was somewhat ACTUALLY effective). contrary to popular belief, the bushido code was only somewhat enforced, and your average samurai was just as much of a dick as any other soldier was.

and yes, gunfire is much louder and scarier, but you'd only really get one shot, since reloading took so damn long. by the time you've dropped another metal ball in and poured in another flask of powder, you've got a katana going through your neck. longbows were also superior in range.
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Postby Atomsk » Fri May 02, 2008 12:35 pm

I'd like to point out that Knights very typically have enourmous dragons on their side, whereas Samuri have historically poor relations with mystical creatures.
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Postby Captain Nomouth » Fri May 02, 2008 1:56 pm

Knights wear metal armor, whereas samurai wore bamboo. Knights carry large swords which crush bamboo. Samurai carry wimpy little blades that knights can snap over their knee. I think the knight has a clear advantage.
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Postby Tiny Tank Rannon » Fri May 02, 2008 3:10 pm

Rayhawk wrote:I've always thought the knights armor made minifigs look kind of fat. The samurai armor makes them look awesome. And it still looks good in sci-fi settings, where the knight armor doesn't hold up as well. Therefore I vote for the samurai.


Cut off those little flaps in the front and Ta-da! with some muscle decals becomes awesome greek armour. or was it roman?

Hell, just cutting off those flaps makes it look cooler, I did it with my Grey Knight
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Postby Atomsk » Fri May 02, 2008 3:12 pm

Tiny Tank Rannon wrote:
Rayhawk wrote:I've always thought the knights armor made minifigs look kind of fat. The samurai armor makes them look awesome. And it still looks good in sci-fi settings, where the knight armor doesn't hold up as well. Therefore I vote for the samurai.


Cut off those little flaps in the front and Ta-da! with some muscle decals becomes awesome greek armour. or was it roman?

Hell, just cutting off those flaps makes it look cooler, I did it with my Grey Knight


Blasphemy! Cutting LEGO parts is a mortal sin...
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Postby IVhorseman » Fri May 02, 2008 3:18 pm

Captain Nomouth wrote:Knights wear metal armor, whereas samurai wore bamboo. Knights carry large swords which crush bamboo. Samurai carry wimpy little blades that knights can snap over their knee. I think the knight has a clear advantage.


wrongwrongwrongwrongwrong.

knight armor was iron at best. Samurai come from japan, where they discovered how to make STEEL before anybody else. steel > iron.

furthermore, a samurai's blade is a katana, which are to this day revered as the best swords ever forged. a katana is made with several layers of folded steel, which is VASTLY superior to a european knight's longsword.
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Postby C.B. STUDIOS » Fri May 02, 2008 4:01 pm

Rayhawk wrote:And although we don't normally think too much about morale advantages on this forum, gunfire is much louder and scarier than archery, and the psychological effects of that could hardly be overstated in a medieval environment.


Your right soldiers peasents etc etc... would think it was the earth rising up against them
A japanese Katana could cut through a knight sword but a knight sword would barely knick a katana

Hence the katana wins :D

edit: der dA der
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Postby Atomsk » Fri May 02, 2008 4:19 pm

C.B. STUDIOS wrote:
Rayhawk wrote:And although we don't normally think too much about morale advantages on this forum, gunfire is much louder and scarier than archery, and the psychological effects of that could hardly be overstated in a medieval environment.


Your right soldiers peasents etc etc... would think it was the earth rising up against them
A japanese Katana could cut through a knight sword but a knight sword would barely knick a katana

Hence the katana wins :D

edit: der dA der


The point of a sword is not to cut through another sword, but to cut through the person wielding it.
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Postby Blitzen » Fri May 02, 2008 4:42 pm

-> Mythbusters


Anyway, all this discussion doesn't matter. The question clearly was whether a samurai or knight would be better to use as armour, and I covered that in my first post.


To 4: Japan has some of the worst iron ever. The only reason they folded it was to make its quality equal to or greater than that of Europe's.
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Postby Atomsk » Fri May 02, 2008 4:52 pm

Blitzen wrote:To 4: Japan has some of the worst iron ever. The only reason they folded it was to make its quality equal to or greater than that of Europe's.


To create a katana, a 4-day iron smelting process was used, in which the pig iron ore was cooked inside a clay oven with a precise mixture of carbon. The clay cover was later broken and the purified steel removed in chucks. Only the purest samples were used in weapon-smithing. The sword-smith would then work out the impurities and folded the steel to create the legendary strength of the katana. It is important to note that while variations in the number of folds exist, modern science has found that 7 is the optimal number of folds, anything beyond this does not enchance the strength of the blade. It is also notable that various coatings applied to the blade during the final stages of the smithing alter the properties of the steel, such that the sharpened edge is much harder and retains it's cutting ability, while the back of the blade is more elastic and can withstand the stress of impact better.
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Postby Tiny Tank Rannon » Fri May 02, 2008 5:04 pm

And since Katana's are curved, they aren't very good for stabbing, now are they? As compared to a broadsword, which I can hack, slash, stab, snuggle, etc... you with.
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Postby blackwing77 » Fri May 02, 2008 5:11 pm

katana's are meant for slashing and are amazing at that.
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Postby Blitzen » Fri May 02, 2008 5:29 pm

Atomsk wrote:
Blitzen wrote:To 4: Japan has some of the worst iron ever. The only reason they folded it was to make its quality equal to or greater than that of Europe's.


To create a katana, a 4-day iron smelting process was used, in which the pig iron ore was cooked inside a clay oven with a precise mixture of carbon. The clay cover was later broken and the purified steel removed in chucks. Only the purest samples were used in weapon-smithing. The sword-smith would then work out the impurities and folded the steel to create the legendary strength of the katana. It is important to note that while variations in the number of folds exist, modern science has found that 7 is the optimal number of folds, anything beyond this does not enchance the strength of the blade. It is also notable that various coatings applied to the blade during the final stages of the smithing alter the properties of the steel, such that the sharpened edge is much harder and retains it's cutting ability, while the back of the blade is more elastic and can withstand the stress of impact better.

Which is almost like what I said, except I didn't make a really long paragraph.

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Folded_steel
The most famous part of the manufacturing process was the folding of the steel. Japanese swords and other edged weapons are manufactured by the Chinese method of repeatedly heating, folding and hammering the metal. This practice became popular due to the use of highly impure metals, stemming from the low temperature yielded in the smelting at that time and place. The folding did several things:

* It eliminated any bubbles in the metal.
* It homogenized the metal, spreading the elements (such as carbon) evenly throughout - increasing the effective strength by decreasing the number of potential weak points.
* It burned off many impurities, helping to overcome the poor quality of the raw Japanese steel.
* It created layers, by continuously decarburizing the surface and bringing it into the blade's interior, which gives the swords their grain (for comparison see pattern welding); however, the belief that the layered structure provides enhanced mechanical properties of the steel is false, as layers act as weld points which can only serve to weaken the integrity of the blade.
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Postby Atomsk » Fri May 02, 2008 6:00 pm

I was mostly just typing what I remembered from my Material Science lecture a few years ago. We spent a whole class on medieval Japanese carbon-steel techniques. Facinating stuff.
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Postby Rody » Sat May 03, 2008 4:02 am

Captain Nomouth wrote:Knights wear metal armor, whereas samurai wore bamboo. Knights carry large swords which crush bamboo. Samurai carry wimpy little blades that knights can snap over their knee. I think the knight has a clear advantage.


you forget that bomboo is wicked strong, and trying to snap any sword, and even more so a katana, will result in you losing your leg if you accidentally put the cutting edge on your leg.
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