Lego Friends, err, FIENDS

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Re: Lego Friends, err, FIENDS

Postby Arkbrik » Wed Apr 04, 2012 12:23 am

Bragallot wrote:It's not like Lego over-stereotypes women. The woman (not sure if she ever had a name) from Rock Raiders was totally badass, the one from Alpha Team wasn't a wimp either and Princess Storm just kicked ass. Then there's the female ninja, too.

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Re: Lego Friends, err, FIENDS

Postby stubby » Wed Apr 04, 2012 12:24 am

sjosten wrote:
Natalya wrote:I think its possible to have a story or something with a female protagonist I feel like boys could like it but only if that girl wasn't limited by her being a girl. By limited i mean like Bella in twilight is like totally pointless because her existence is determined by Edward... Her life revolves around him. That kind of crap boys won't go for but maybe if there was something where it wasn't dumb like that? I guess i don't know of any examples.

bronises totally confirm this.

Past a certain age, yes - but Lego makes its money in the sweet spot between ages six to nine. How many bronises do you know under age 10?
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Re: Lego Friends, err, FIENDS

Postby Natalya » Wed Apr 04, 2012 1:31 am

Bragallot wrote:
Maybe Lego could do like a college set or something. That way they could do traditional minifigures for everyone, have equal boys and girls (though I guess there would be more female teachers), and you'd get some cool settings like a robotics lab, a student center, or a university cinema. It would promote education, be family friendly, and allow for girls or boys to explore the different roles of college students.


In that case, people would start complaining about 'nerd' an 'cool guy' stereotypes. Nowadays it's impossible to do anything without getting anyone offended and that's just a load of bull to me, every single person who complains about sexism, racism or any other imaginary -ism when no one's actually getting hurt should receive a troutslap. From a marketing point of view, I think these are a good move for Lego. Otherwise, I couldn't care less even if all the female characters were doing stereotypically woman tasks like ironing, cooking and stuff. What people forget is that a minority is always complaining about stereotypes, while the majority isn't complaining and just fitting into the stereotype and feeling good about themselves regardless.


I would pick this apart word for word if i wasn't using a phone.
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Re: Lego Friends, err, FIENDS

Postby Zahru II » Wed Apr 04, 2012 2:39 am

I still believe that the best way to protest against 'fiends' is not buying them. Low sales matter more than 'omg gender stereotypes hueueueue'. Anyway, I like the hairpieces, especially because they're minifig compatible.
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Re: Lego Friends, err, FIENDS

Postby Bragallot » Wed Apr 04, 2012 3:27 am

stubby wrote:Yeah, but even those are a sacrifice. The more prominently those characters are highlighted, you see immediate loss of interest in the target market. Just having them in there at all costs sales in a very real and measurable way, but Lego keeps sticking them in there because they're so conscious of their poor male-to-female minifig ratio.


So basically, the audience sucks. Makes sense. What's up with kids nowadays anyway. Even as a 7-year old I knew women + armour + swords = good. Do they no longer watch Xena? Xena taught me at a very young age that it's good for women to be kickass.

The one thing I would complain about is that they put mics on too many heads, which is irritating if you try to use them for a fantasy setting. Although some quick mods could solve this, it's still kinda irritating.
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Re: Lego Friends, err, FIENDS

Postby Keldoclock » Wed Apr 04, 2012 7:24 am

I remember one of the prominent Lego sets of the time I was 6 to 9, I had a Lego set with a truck and a submarine and a paired set from the same line of an evil dude in a submarine-squid... Thing.

Whenever I played with it the guy and the girl always were partners( in a super-spy explodey way, not a romantic way) working to thwart the evil dude. The girl usually piloted the submarine(she had tech-y glasses and a repair kit on her belt), and the guy rode a shark( because I was like 7 ).
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Re: Lego Friends, err, FIENDS

Postby stubby » Wed Apr 04, 2012 9:01 am

Natalya wrote:
Bragallot wrote:Nowadays it's impossible to do anything without getting anyone offended and that's just a load of bull to me, every single person who complains about sexism, racism or any other imaginary -ism when no one's actually getting hurt should receive a troutslap.

I would pick this apart word for word if i wasn't using a phone.

I'm kind of amazed there isn't a website for this yet. (I keep looking.) Like, it's not exactly rare for white guys to be oblivious to their own privilege, and it's not rare for everybody else to want to point out what it's like to know they'll spend the rest of their lives marginalized and treated as objects and non-humans because the white guys are all tied up in their privilege Dunning-Kruger. They have basic-facts websites for you to quicklink people arguing about global warming or evolution, so why not privilege?

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Re: Lego Friends, err, FIENDS

Postby Whiteagle » Wed Apr 04, 2012 9:06 am

aoffan23 wrote:I'd also like to point out that there was a girl in the Pharaoh's Quest line. She came in two of the sets, and was equipped with the same stuff as the guys. But she was the only one with a scared face, so I think that was a dumb move by Lego. There was also the girl in Alien Conquest and the new Dino line. I think that including a female character, even if she's not the protagonist, would do the trick to get rid of the heat they get.

Actually, the girl from the Alien Conquest line is known as the "Soldier", and from her profile I'm guessing she's the ADU's primary ground combat specialist.
The males are things like "Rookie", "Pilot", "Computer Specialist", "Scientist", and "Sergeant".
From the looks of it, not only is she their primary Alien ass-kicker, but she's probably the only other certifiable bad-ass besides the Sarg.

Keldoclock wrote:I remember one of the prominent Lego sets of the time I was 6 to 9, I had a Lego set with a truck and a submarine and a paired set from the same line of an evil dude in a submarine-squid... Thing.

Whenever I played with it the guy and the girl always were partners( in a super-spy explodey way, not a romantic way) working to thwart the evil dude. The girl usually piloted the submarine(she had tech-y glasses and a repair kit on her belt), and the guy rode a shark( because I was like 7 ).

Alpha Team...

And Spy-on-a-Shark cannot compete with Spaceman Skeleton surfing a Crocodile that shot lasers out of its mouth!
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Re: Lego Friends, err, FIENDS

Postby stubby » Wed Apr 04, 2012 9:23 am

Imagine knowing that your child could get murdered just walking down the street and, not only would there be no investigation, but the rest of the country would say it was his own fault for wearing a hoodie. Or every time you step outside the door you can get grabbed by a stranger, beaten black and blue, snuggled repeatedly, and finally murdered, and the reaction in the press will be to imply that it was your fault because of the outfit you picked. "You don't fit into our white-guy mold, so you deserve what you get." That's what it means to be objectified. The reason people get offended is because every time you open your privileged mouth you're helping put them in that position, where they don't matter as people, where the rest of society can do whatever they want to them and dispose of them afterwards. Anybody who thinks the -isms aren't resulting in actual people getting actually hurt -- constantly -- isn't listening to the news.
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Re: Lego Friends, err, FIENDS

Postby Insert_blank » Wed Apr 04, 2012 9:24 am

Stubby you are the best. "Check your privilege" needs to be a much more commonly used phrase.
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Re: Lego Friends, err, FIENDS

Postby Tzan » Wed Apr 04, 2012 9:46 am

stubby wrote:I'm kind of amazed there isn't a website for this yet.


Because a white guy hasn't made it yet.
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Re: Lego Friends, err, FIENDS

Postby Bragallot » Wed Apr 04, 2012 9:54 am

I did not say these -isms didn't exist, I was pointing out the imaginary ones that dwell in the minds of paranoid people. As a white nowadays, you can't say or do anything without being dubbed racist and if you're unlucky and you're well-known you might even get prosecuted and your reputation shot to hell and the basis of a biased interpretation of something you said or did, how's that for racism? Just look at how these few things I said immediately made people think of me as 'privileged white guy who doesn't give a crap' :roll: I'm actually very tolerable, that's why I don't like people who are intolerable towards stuff that doesn't affect them, fe 'the stereotypical role of the female' in freakin childrens toys, ethnic and other jokes a comedian who in the same show explicitly says good things about them too and very clearly criticizes the racist party of that particular country in the same show (this actually happened) or whatever, there's countless new examples every day. I've been part of a student's group for more equality and whatnot, and when we did something it was never about such inconsequential crap because we knew saying we're offended by something ridiculously unimportant that didn't truly affect anybody would only make us look like we had nothing important to worry about, and instead we addressed actual inequality the likes stubby mentions which yes, exists, and should be dealt with, starting there and not with stuff that has no effect and makes no sense. Continuing to point out our differences (which are and always will be there, whether you want it or not) on every little thing and forcibly teaching everyone to never say anything about them to create this facade of political correctness is only going to push different groups further away from each other. Do you think forcing people to put a black guy in every series even if it makes no sense from the stories' perspective, saying the black power ranger can't have a black costume because that's racist, saying the Sint (Santa's Belgian Brother) having black helpers is racist (while kids actually like these helpers tremendously) is going to endear racial groups to each other? It's when you can stand inconsequential stuff like this that you're being truly intolerable and attacking other group's freedom from your own group's perspective, which only creates strife and frustration. This method of thinking eventually leads to political minority groups being able to push each and every one of their views through because everything that goes against them even in the slightest is dubbed 'racism'. This is already happening in Belgium and Holland, where traditions are banned because Muslim minorities find them 'offensive' and no one can do anything against them because, well, of course they'd be racist, which would ruin their career. Pick your ism, be the judge of the day, fake plastic political correctness all the way!

And if you for one moment believe there's a mom at home right now going 'Lego is so stereotypical! I feel repressed!' then bury that illusion already. All these -isms nowadays are are powerful political and commercial tools to smother other politicians or corporation's reputation. If the people who use them actually gave a shit about them, they'd be doing something about the inequality of the wages, or other stuff that really affects people. By acting against imaginary isms the power makes it seem like they're trying to do something about these problems so they can keep creating more actual equality for everyone off the agenda and create the illusion they do give a shit, which they don't. They don't. At all.

The very fact we're having this conversation while this was originally about plastic toys alone shows how paranoid people are.
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Re: Lego Friends, err, FIENDS

Postby stubby » Wed Apr 04, 2012 10:38 am

So, you basically didn't hear anything we had to say then. Which was kind of my point.

Yes, there are moms sitting at home saying exactly that. I know because I first took up this conversation with a pair of them last month. And they were able to immediately introduce me to more of their friends than I can count, who had all reacted the same way. Think for a second about the fact that you can kick back and confidently declare that no mom anywhere feels the way that these actual moms do, and not even think twice about it. That's what objectification is in a nutshell. They don't get their own opinions, because you already have their opinions for them. You don't have to ask them, because you know their experience better than they do.

Look, you don't get it. And you're never going to get it, until you realize that you don't get it. At all. The more you keep talking, the more obvious and offensive you're making it. This isn't a joke, I'm actually kind of embarrassed on your behalf right now.
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Re: Lego Friends, err, FIENDS

Postby Bragallot » Wed Apr 04, 2012 11:27 am

Bury your white guilt already, stubs. I didn't make society the way it is today, I did not murder anyone or denied them a job based on their skin colour or gender, so I have nothing to apologize for. And if you think I do because I'm white, well, then you're exactly the same thing you're trying to accuse me of. If you think it's inconsequential that I have female friends and friends of other religions or races that can have a laugh about our differences rather than be extremely stuck up and touchy about them, that fits into the of the good politically correct member of society just as well as opposed to people who like to think about why everything is the way it is and who has caused this to be that way for what reason rather than take for granted what the media and the television tells you. If people are concerned about stuff like children's toys depicting stereotypes (in their eyes), it's because the power wants them to and swaying their opinions into thinking this stuff actually matters and affects them, so they don't see how much the government is fucking them over on stuff that matters. Were you by any chance phoning members of the one million moms federation, who get offended by just about anything? If you think me saying people should stand up for their rights and equality on points that matter (such as millionaires escaping taxes daily) rather than attacking comedians, moviemakers or corporations over things that aren't meant to be offensive is offensive, there's not much more I can do here than to point back to the posts I already made: it's impossible to say anything out of the boundaries of what the media has determined as political correctness without offending anyone. Do you honestly believe they created this definition of political correctness for everyone's well-being? No, again, it's just a powerful tool.

If I was really a racist or sexist or whatever you want to think I am, I'd stick to comments like the ones Tzan made (except I'd be serious) rather than point out the flaws in society and say how I think things could be better.
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Re: Lego Friends, err, FIENDS

Postby stubby » Wed Apr 04, 2012 12:16 pm

I'm sorry, this is just too embarrassing. Banned under rule 1(e) of the terms of service.

Here's the thing. I don't mind if you're acting like a complete asshole, that's kind of the point of this forum. I don't even mind if you're acting like a complete asshole and pretend like you don't know you're acting like a complete asshole*, because that's part of being a successful complete asshole. But when you're acting like a complete asshole and you are genuinely oblivious to the fact that you're acting like a complete asshole**, everything falls apart because then you don't get any of the jokes. It's just not a viable situation.

* - see: Silverdream
** - see: Asterios
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