Sun Tzu - The Art of War

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Postby Zahru II » Thu Sep 29, 2011 4:58 pm

It's a good read; I sometimes give it a read now and then.
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Postby BFenix » Thu Sep 29, 2011 6:23 pm

BFenix wrote:
Ham701 wrote:Medieval......Romans. I wouldn't trust that text if I were you, inability to control much territory and all.


Wait, what? Romans, middle ages? Someone needs to pay attention to History class. The end of the Roman Empire marks the Beginning of the Middle Ages.
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Postby Ham701 » Thu Sep 29, 2011 6:50 pm

Porphyrogenitus wrote:When the guy who is writing your manuals (Nikephoros II) is called the "Pale Death of the Saracens" by the Arabs then you know he must be doing something right. He's also the guy who retook Crete on his first go, after centuries of the empire failing no matter what it threw at the place.

Maurice Tiberius was pretty good too, and the Strategikon was his.


Byzantines=/=Romans.
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Postby Silverdream » Thu Sep 29, 2011 7:09 pm

Plus, Rome was the Grandfather of the biggest losers ever.
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Postby Ross_Varn » Fri Sep 30, 2011 1:11 pm

I've got a great book for you to read.

H.G. Wells: Little Wars

The first publication of a wargame- a public war game, that people played. It's a rather interesting read.
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Postby Porphyrogenitus » Fri Sep 30, 2011 1:42 pm

BFenix wrote:
BFenix wrote:
Ham701 wrote:Medieval......Romans. I wouldn't trust that text if I were you, inability to control much territory and all.


Wait, what? Romans, middle ages? Someone needs to pay attention to History class. The end of the Roman Empire marks the Beginning of the Middle Ages.


The Roman Empire had two capitals after Theodosius: Ravenna and Constantinople. Ravenna fell to barbarians c 476, but even those same barbarians acknowledged the remaining emperor in Constantinople as the sole remaining Roman emperor (there's actually a strong argument that the so-called emperor who was deposed in 476 wasn't even legitimate anyway, making the one in Constantinople the sole Roman emperor from an earlier date). He didn't like even a potentially false Roman emperor being deposed by barbarians, so he sent his good buddy Theodoric to take them out and rule as his client king in Italy (hence the Gothic kingdom was founded).

After Justinian's client and ally Amalasuntha got herself assassinated, Justinian sent Belisarius and Narses to bring Italy fully into the empire once more, and it retained at least a foothold in Italy until the Normans invaded Sicily and Italy several centuries later.

The end of the Roman Empire in 1453 is one marker of the beginning of the Renaissance. The middle ages began with the rise of Islam c the 630s, and Late Antiquity began c the rise of Diocletian and Constantine (which marked the end of the Classical period).
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Postby stubby » Fri Sep 30, 2011 4:24 pm

Porphyrogenitus wrote:The end of the Roman Empire in 1453 is one marker of the beginning of the Renaissance. The middle ages began with the rise of Islam c the 630s, and Late Antiquity began c the rise of Diocletian and Constantine (which marked the end of the Classical period).

:owned:
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Postby BFenix » Fri Sep 30, 2011 4:52 pm

stubby wrote:
Porphyrogenitus wrote:The end of the Roman Empire in 1453 is one marker of the beginning of the Renaissance. The middle ages began with the rise of Islam c the 630s, and Late Antiquity began c the rise of Diocletian and Constantine (which marked the end of the Classical period).

:owned:


I don't think so. I forgot "our" term of the Middle Ages isin't the same for you guys. Medieval Ages = Renaissance. Its because for us the Renaissance period is the way out of the Middles Ages.
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Postby Silverdream » Fri Sep 30, 2011 7:55 pm

BFenix wrote:
stubby wrote:
Porphyrogenitus wrote:The end of the Roman Empire in 1453 is one marker of the beginning of the Renaissance. The middle ages began with the rise of Islam c the 630s, and Late Antiquity began c the rise of Diocletian and Constantine (which marked the end of the Classical period).

:owned:


I don't think so. I forgot "our" term of the Middle Ages isin't the same for you guys. Medieval Ages = Renaissance. Its because for us the Renaissance period is the way out of the Middles Ages.


Really? In Portugal they view the renaissance as the middle ages?
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Postby Ham701 » Fri Sep 30, 2011 8:10 pm

Wow. Portugal is more backwards than I thought.
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Postby Porphyrogenitus » Fri Sep 30, 2011 8:20 pm

In the US there are pretty much two schools of thought that I'm aware of.

The first is the old-school, Gibbon is awesome, the Middle Ages were all about Feudal everything, the Dark Ages came before the Middle Ages and were a time when religious superstitions resulted in a massive loss of knowledge and technology, and the Roman Empire ended in 476 when the last emperor was deposed.

The second is that Gibbon is a biased punk, Feudalism is a largely useless term that was pretty much invented by Renaissance-era bureaucrats trying to justify their monarchs' attempts to centralize power, and the Roman Empire ended in 1453 with the fall of Constantinople to the Turks. It pretty much says that there was the Classical Period (likely divided up a bunch, but I'm not specialized into that field so I wouldn't be able to tell you how), followed by Late Antiquity (a sort of transitional period between the Classical and Medieval eras, lots of changes going on technologically, militarily, politically, socially, etc), Early Medieval (rise of Islam to just before the First Crusade pretty much), High Medieval (Crusades period until the start of the Hundred Years War), Late Medieval (pretty much the start of the Hundred Years War to the fall of Constantinople and the flight of the scholars and books from that city to the west), then the Renaissance, then the Reformation, then the Enlightenment, then the Early Modern, and so on like Bonn-o-Tron.

I'd be rather surprised if there weren't other naming protocols being taught elsewhere, and I'd imagine that they have their own reasons for doing things the way they do. The Iberian peninsula, for instance, I'd imagine would hinge a lot of things around the Reconquista, while France very likely is all about the various stages in the development of their monarchy. My impression is that the first way mentioned above is based on the predominant British view, at least as of a few decades ago, but it has been under heavy attack by contemporary academics.
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Postby BFenix » Sat Oct 01, 2011 6:41 am

Silverdream wrote:
BFenix wrote:
stubby wrote:
Porphyrogenitus wrote:The end of the Roman Empire in 1453 is one marker of the beginning of the Renaissance. The middle ages began with the rise of Islam c the 630s, and Late Antiquity began c the rise of Diocletian and Constantine (which marked the end of the Classical period).

:owned:


I don't think so. I forgot "our" term of the Middle Ages isin't the same for you guys. Medieval Ages = Renaissance. Its because for us the Renaissance period is the way out of the Middles Ages.


Really? In Portugal they view the renaissance as the middle ages?


It's not a matter of view but a matter of terms. We call the Middles Ages the period that started when the Roman Empire fell and the birth of the Renaissance period (a time period in European history). The revolution of art, science and culture that occurred between the XIII and the XVII centuries. You know, the time of geniuses and great artists, like Da Vinci. It's normal that the Americans don't have it since when it ended, America was practically being colonized.

Oh and Ham, go troll someone else. :roll:
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