A Conversation About the Control of Political Power by the R

[Natalya]

Money buys political favours. We know this to be true and it has always been this way. What I want to do here is talk about how it is affecting our lives, how it works right now at the end of 2011 and what to do about it.

My thesis would be that the public education system in the U.S. is a graveyard for the minds of the populace. It produces millions of uneducated consumeristic drone citizens who will not be able to understand the workings of the government, and who therefore will not challenge it being controlled by the elite.

The best way to counteract this problem is to ask questions, but we are taught in school only how to memorize some random facts then regurgitate them later onto a multiple-choice test in a disgusting mockery of learning.

Uhh more later.

[Keldoclock]

That is not the problem nor a solution and i know you will respond suggesting that instead it is simply a conversation but the tone of the argument implies that it is an argument.

The problem is the death of social mobility in the U.S., and the fact that people still think they can go from rags to riches when in fact they are less likely to do so here than in any other country in the world (except for the UK, still worse there).


There is no solution. Enjoy being poor.

[Natalya]

I meant the problem of an unaware drone populace.

Anyway, continuing where I left off, broadcast media such as the radio or the television play an equally important role in the cultivation of our mindless society. If the public education system stifles our intellectual development and makes us into sheep, then the media keeps us that way. Think about watching a movie. Unless it is a documentary, if it is a Hollywood film or olike most television programs in general, the nature of the media (a screen with speakers which you sit and watch) coupled with fairly standard editing techniques draws your attention into the screen and leave you in a state of passive reception of whatever you happen to be watching. Most americans spend a number of hours each day in this trance-like mode, completely docile. The material may incite emotions but they are planning for you to have certain reactions; you follow a script just like the actors.

More soon.

[Natalya]

Continued...

This mental inactivity is incredibly easy, and even fosters a love of such inaction. Many of my friends either don't like to have discussions about complicated issues, or are simply unable to participate in one because they do not know anything. Often times this frustrates them and leaves them either indifferent or upset that they had to try to use their mind for something. I end up alienating people like this on occasion, but I don't think they have to be like that. Most people have the potential within them to be able to learn how to think critically, it isn't that hard. They just have never done it before so it takes some getting used to. I feel like many people truly are asleep even when their body is awake.

[Robot Monkey]

Expect us.

[Ross_Varn]

Well, that's the thing. The "mental machine" that Natalya is attempting to twist to her own argument also has a factor in its favor- it tells people that they are special, and they can change the world. As a result (this is what OneEye and I have had several discussions over) "normal" becomes slightly warped in favor of "weird". I mean, heck, look at today's generation- half of them will grin if you call them weird instead of normal. It's this dissemination of the word that directs your attention to your own unique values instead of trying to fit in, and it's the reason why the internet thrives. But the internet is /freaking huge/, which means that "the machine" can't be quite as effective as you say. I mean, the Drone Empire is a bit catchy, but it doesn't quite fit America's stance in the long run.

[Ross_Varn]

also this should be moved to Brikthulumation because it's only going to end up there anyway

[Keldoclock]

also this should be moved to Brikthulumation because it's only going to end up there anyway

Agreed.


Nat- Can you give us something more than anecdotal evidence? I would very much like to agree with you but your posts are written in such a way as to piss me off inadvertently.

[Silverdream]

So which letter are we worried about? T or R?

[Natalya]

also this should be moved to Brikthulumation because it's only going to end up there anyway

Agreed.


Nat- Can you give us something more than anecdotal evidence? I would very much like to agree with you but your posts are written in such a way as to piss me off inadvertently.

I mean, have you ever watched TV? Next time you watch TV (or a movie where it is usually more pronounced) pay attention to what your mind does and how you feel.



On average, Americans watch more than 2 hours a day, some of them watch much more. This data is from 2005 so we can expect that since then people have replaced some of that time with internet time, but then again how much time do you spend online doing critical thinking or having meaningful discussions with people? Probably not much if you're like anyone else I know; they spend a lot of time on the internet doing shit like Facebook which can be meaningful sometimes, but go to your homepage and tell me how many different people wrote something that mattered on any given day. I circulate with and am friends on FB with a number of people with whom I hold interesting discussions, but when I checked it right now, out of the probably 50 different people who had posted something, only 3 of them mentioned anything intellectual. The rest was stuff like "I HAVE to drop 30 lbs. by Prom time. Who wants to help me and help motivate me?" or whatever. A lot of it is mundane personal life stuff too, "planning winter getaway #2....," but what I'm saying is most people don't go on there to learn or talk about the world.

[Ross_Varn]

You're attempting to define normal.

It doesn't work that way.

Take that chart, apply it to me. Half of it would be internet, right? Half of that would be developing games/having debates with people/constructing things online with other people. The other half would be divvied up between following the news and following a bloody thousand other independent developers/publishers/gamers/writers/artists out there on the internet. Give a portion out of that lot over to mindless clicking, sure, I know I do that as well. But the rest of the chart? Building things. Making things. Reading- science fiction, science fact, fantasy, plotting my next game, listening to music, contemplating the beginning, the inevitable end and everything in between to all things, talking to friends, doing schoolwork - I rarely watch television! I'll maybe catch an hour in an odd week when somebody in the house is being sick and doesn't have anything else to do! That isn't a valid use of my time, and I know others who think that same way, Natalya. This is... see, you've worded this to offend. To make people respond. I bloody well know you make me respond with stuff like this, it's the same reason Piltogg baits me in. We aren't sheeple - we know what that means. Launch a thousand descriptors, words, meaningless phrases aimed to "tear down the walls" and "take out the empire" - the empire is built by people who decided to make it their own. The news corporations decided to make it their own. It is not a gilded empire. It is built by people. I myself decide not to consume the endless waves of crap they send my way, and I myself am better for it. I don't know about you, but the loop of popular culture blows over my head so much recently that I could care less what song Glee covered last night- I don't have any idea what the hell you're on about, but I know that Icon for Hire is a decent band, I've just got a copy of Analog in the mail, and the sky is goddamn brilliant tonight.

Tell you what, answer this one. Are we better off than we were before? In history? Do we have more freedoms, more rights, are less people executed on the street for their beliefs? Because, yes, that still happens in the world today- but it doesn't here. Perhaps I've got a silver shine on the lenses of these out of the ordinary steampunk goggles that I seem to wear everywhere, but the world doesn't rest, mate, it moves on. Develops. Technology is reaching the point where information is instant, and we can access any instance of that information whenever we wish. It means people like you and I can register these opinons in that same instant- communication is facilitated, and we are the better for it. The Drone Empire doesn't exist, and it isn't in the works, unlike how you lot keep exclaiming- you just want something to fight for, something that doesn't undermine your other beliefs.

I really want to know who the hell "R" is though.

[Ben-Jammin]

I'm glad that I watch almost no TV whatsoever then. Most of my time entertainment wise is composed of video games, workouts, and brikwars.

However, I could see Natalya's point. I personally think that sitting in front of a TV for extended periods of time does little more than turn us into mindless zombies. Even worse is the fact that it can cause us to lose interest in our hobbies. Take my brother for example. I've tried on numerous occasions to say "Hey, lets have a brikwar or something," but he often says no and just sits and watch TV or plays Halo. He does enjoy playing outside from time to time, but I can definitely tell that his inactivity for most of the day is taking its toll. It gets even worse when he's at school. The mindless chatter of the teachers and pointless factual memorization that they try to instill in us is enough to drive me mad, never mind my eight-year old brother. Do you really think he's learning anything by just listening to them ramble? I know I'm not. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that I'm a better teacher to him than any of those "professionals" at his school.

I mean, have you ever watched TV? Next time you watch TV (or a movie where it is usually more pronounced) pay attention to what your mind does and how you feel.

She also has a point here. And its not just TV. I've noticed that sitting down and doing stuff like playing video games for too long can have a negative effect on my mood and such. I agree with the fact that meaningful and intellectual discussions are somewhat essential to us, but so is our entertainment time.

[Whiteagle]

I just have to face-palm at Natalya's assertion that this is a recent trend...

You know why there are complacent masses?
It's because the masses LIKE TO BE PLACATED!
The reason people don't critically think about the world around them is because most don't enjoy the additional stress of realizing how screwed up it truly is or how some things are far beyond their ability to influence.
This isn't the fault of the Education system (Quite the opposite in my opinion, they're one of the few institutions that try to get people to think period), it's a natural tendency of civilized Human Beings!
As long as the majority has a place to sleep, something to eat, and feel relatively safe, why question the people in authority who are clearly doing their jobs?

Now, your still going to whine, "Why aren't more people getting involved with Government?"
Well that's easy, Government equals Politics, AKA the Business of Bullshit.
Very few people get elected to office for being effective administrators, often it is whoever has a better mastery of rhetoric and etiquette.
Since everyone has their own favored interests they feel are the most important, you end up with a massive pool of social manipulators each jockeying to get what they want done.
The net result is barely anything ever getting accomplished, and the world continues spinning as it always has.

And what is the "R"?

[ForlornCreature]

Yes

tl;dr

[Ben-Jammin]

You know why there are complacent masses?
It's because the masses LIKE TO BE PLACATED!
The reason people don't critically think about the world around them is because most don't enjoy the additional stress of realizing how screwed up it truly is or how some things are far beyond their ability to influence.
This isn't the fault of the Education system (Quite the opposite in my opinion, they're one of the few institutions that try to get people to think period), it's a natural tendency of civilized Human Beings!
As long as the majority has a place to sleep, something to eat, and feel relatively safe, why question the people in authority who are clearly doing their jobs?

I also agree with you Whiteagle, but there comes a time when people not only become aware of the fact that they are being used but also when they realize that they could have better than what they have now. That too is human nature: the desire to have more for yourself. Take modern America as an example. Sure its still a great place to live, and the majority of the population has that place to sleep and something to eat. BUt the way our corrupted government has been using us and pretty much taking our money for themselves and their campaign supporters means that we could have a lot more. Sure we have those things, but who's to say they won't be here tomorrow (just like the jobs)?

Since everyone has their own favored interests they feel are the most important, you end up with a massive pool of social manipulators each jockeying to get what they want done.
The net result is barely anything ever getting accomplished, and the world continues spinning as it always has.

Hence my prior statement. This has come to be in America, but the only people who truly get what they want are the government and their funders because they simply don't care about anyone else, they just want more money, and so the funders of the politicians get their way because they basically pay the congressmen and representatives to get what they want done. Of course no government has ever been perfect but its pretty obvious that America's (and a few of the rest of the world's) governments are running rampant with corruption and egotistical politicians.

Well that's easy, Government equals Politics, AKA the Business of Bullshit.

Then I guess I like to play in bullshit since I like politics.

And what is the "R"?

I would like to know as well.

EDIT: okay, what's the T?