Making stats for my vehicles

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Making stats for my vehicles

Postby Bragallot » Wed Aug 08, 2012 4:58 am

Since I'm (relatively) new to (trying to do) this (somewhat) (right), I figured having some input couldn't hurt.

I don't need my creations to be 100 percent accurate with the rules (because I believe in adding faction strengths and weaknesses to the mix), I'm just trying to make sure they're neither too overpowered nor underpowered compared to what they should be.

If you have stats of comparable vehicles of your own to share, that would be great.

Let's start out with the Hyena:

Image

Movement: This was one of the easier things to decide. He looks slow and only has to be able to keep up with infantry to support them, so he has 5" move.

Durability: This is where it gets tougher. Right now he has 10 armour and 3 SP because he's somewhere in between Size 2 and 3, so I kept the Structure Points but didn't give him as much armour as a Size 3 would have. (I use fixed armour ratings because it speeds up gameplay, also keep in mind 5 armour is standard for most figs in my house rules and all except Large weapons thus have +1 damage). Still not sure if this was the right thing to do.

Weapons:

- Burst rockets (8) Ra: 10" UR: 3 Da: 1d6+3/2"
- Lasertwin Ra: 10" UR: 4 Da: (2x) 2d6+1

Note: the dual laser doesn't deal 4d6+2 total damage, the (2x) is there to indicate he deals damage twice separately. He also has to make separate skill rolls for both but he can only aim at 1 target.

Weapon limit? Not sure if I've exceeded it, but I don't think he's op.
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Re: Making stats for my vehicles

Postby Zupponn » Wed Aug 08, 2012 4:44 pm

Here's something similar that I tried to make stats for using the rulebook:

Image

Skill: 1d10
Move: 10"
Armor: 3d10
Size: 3" (or 3SP, whichever you prefer)

Dual Cannon:
Use: 5
Range: 14"
Damage: 3d6

Minigun:
Use: 4
Range: 8"
Damage: 2d6
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Re: Making stats for my vehicles

Postby Predator » Fri Aug 10, 2012 3:48 pm

My Dreadnought/Dreadnut is similiar but has more OP stats then yours.

15 and 3 structure points, 4" move,

Rotary Grenade Launcher: UR:4, 1d8+1
Stomp: UR:3, 1d6+1

He also has a missile option.

The reason he is so OP because it's a Dreadnought!
I think you shouldn't be so concerned about it being OP, as long as it looks awesome, it can be as OP as you want because causing massive destructing with the thing is always more fun than it going down to fast to cause any collapsing buildings.
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Re: Making stats for my vehicles

Postby Bragallot » Fri Aug 10, 2012 6:07 pm

Thanks for your feedback guys, I just realized I was measuring the Hyena wrongly (I had to take the width of the torso because it's wider than it is tall), which means he's much closer to size 3 than I had guessed and I can easily make him more powerful. That's probably where our difference in stats came from. Although Zuppon's must be the most powerful because it has an AI more powerful than my pilots. Realizing that and paying a little more attention with the rule system for weapons, I changed his stats to this:

Skill 1d6 (Pilot)
Size 3
Move: 5"
14 Armour, 3 SP
Lasertwin Ra: 10" UR: 4 Da: (2x)2d6+1
Burst rockets Ra: 11" UR: 3 Da: 1d6+3

I just started out with what I got from the guide and tweaked where necessary.

Next, the Jackal!

Image

Skill 1d6 (Pilot)
Size 4 (it's a good thing I gave him broad shoulders)
Move 7" (he's pretty big and can move well and after all he's supposed to hunt down slaves, so I don't think it's too much of a stretch)
20 Armour, 4 SP
Autolaser Ra: 12" UR: 3 Da: (2x)1d6+3
Autocannon Ra: 12" UR: 4 Da: (2x)2d6+1
Heavy cannon Ra: 10" UR: 4 Da: 2d6+2
Flamethrower Ra: 5" UR: 4 Da: 2d6+1/2"
Claws UR: 3 Da: 3d6

Mostly I adjusted due to a lack of anything else than d6's, added range because of height and upped damage here and there because a) destruction b) most of my units have 5 armour instead of the standard 4 which is only to make handweapons and heavy weapons more useful in comparison with large weapons but shouldn't affect range. The claws I treated as a high-powered weapon which also gains damage from the fact there's 3 on each hand. The lack of really heavy weaponry is a letdown but I put all the guns on him I could.
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Re: Making stats for my vehicles

Postby Colette » Fri Aug 10, 2012 6:39 pm

For my dreadnoughts, size-wise and armor-wise I nerf them a bit, but they do have powerful weapons to make up for it.

Image

Skill: 1d6 (pilot) + 1d10 (targeting computer)
Size: 2"
Move: 5"
Armor: 2d10 (2 SP)

Anti-Infantry Configuration:
Size 1 Gatling with 4 barrels (with house Gatling gun rules)
Size 2 Cannon
Size 1 Claw

Anti-vehicle Configuration:
2 Size 3 Cannons
4 Size 2 Rockets
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Re: Making stats for my vehicles

Postby Zupponn » Sat Aug 11, 2012 1:25 am

When I made my stats for my dreadnut, I used the weaponry chart in the rulebook for the weapons, the Structure Levels chart for its armor, the Movement Speed Examples Chart for its move (although I do admit that I might have made it too fast now that I look back on it) and the dice explanations for its skill (I chose the d10 because there is no minifig inside the dreadnut and I almost look at it more like some kind of golem). Hope that helps some.
Last edited by Zupponn on Sun Aug 12, 2012 12:12 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Making stats for my vehicles

Postby Bragallot » Sat Aug 11, 2012 11:44 am

Yeah, it does, I will probably do something similar with El Tigre because it doesn't have room for a pilot either. That chart is really useful! I hadn't paid as much attention to it before.

Image

Time to make some stats for the Gekka! (even though I might never use them?)

Skill 1d6+1 (Pilot)
Size 8
Move: 10" (ground or flight)
40 Armour, 8 SP
Equipment:
- Ejection system: fires the hatch 3d6" inches away towards a safe landing upon destruction. UR: 4
Weapons:
Main
Dual Heavy Cannon Ra: 15" UR: 5 Da: (2x)3d6+1
Giant OT sword UR: 5 Da: 6d6 (Since a regular OTC already deals 3d6 with many players, I don't think this is OP at all)
Rockets Ra: 12" UR: 4 Da: 2d6+1/2"
Slash Harken Ra: 15" UR: 5 Damage = 1d6 initial damage, 3d6 MOM, any crash damage following the pull.
Secondary
Head Laser Ra: 10" UR: 4 Da: 2d6+1
Claws UR: 3 Da: (2x)2d6
Minigun UR: 3 Da: 1d6+3/2"

The silly thing is, it's probably so powerful I won't be able to field it unless I field it all on its own against an army (which would be kinda lame), build something equally big (which would be awesome, but difficult), have it crush weaker opponents endlessly (which would be awesome for only 2 turns, it needs something worthy to fight) or get someone to fight me who has a similar MOC (and since I'm the only Belgian Brikwarrior, well...)
Last edited by Bragallot on Sat Aug 11, 2012 4:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Making stats for my vehicles

Postby Colette » Sat Aug 11, 2012 12:11 pm

IMO I think something as big as the Gekka should have a dice armor value because right now it's too OP even considering its class. I'll spoiler the rest of my reasons. I' not ranting but I do sometimes sound long-winded.

Spoiler: show
You might be able to get away with fixed values for smaller mechs and stuffs, but I think it would be worth it to make another dice roll for a super-unit like the Gekka. I mean the way it is now its like it has 4d10 armor and always rolls crits- even a 5d10 armored unit (the max in the rule book) wouldn't consistently roll 40 like that. It just seems a little unfair if you were to brikwar another person. Also the concept behind knightmares is to be agile to avoid tank shells but also slightly weaker armor-wise. Right now it has more armor than an Olympic God (literally, according to the rule book) meaning even if my Trattorian tank with its abnormally oversized size 6 gun were to somehow hit your Gekka (which it shouldn't) it would still have to roll a bunch of crits to knock off a hit point. It would have to be this lucky 8 times to put the Gekka down. Obviously the answer is to combine fire but it still feels like it has too many benefits by being so armored and agile to fit the idea of a knightmare.
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Re: Making stats for my vehicles

Postby Bragallot » Sat Aug 11, 2012 4:11 pm

I see your point, but keep in mind he is much larger than a normal Knightmare, which is why the stats are different than what you'd expect from a more accurate one.

The armour is to compensate for the fact the size makes it so almost everything will hit him. In my ongoing forum battle a squad of 3 Assyrians with anti-vehicle weapons already dealt 26 damage together so 40 damage shouldn't be that much of a stretch, you could get there with 1 squad of rocketeers (especially since they'll all hit), and most people will have more firepower in their army, not only because I'd be outnumbered in every battle I field this thing (because of the cost). I've done a lot of battles and have noticed many small attacks are more powerful than a few large ones in Brikwars because of the havoc crits can cause. Then there's the rules for grinding, component damage... that can still help out against tougher targets. I still see your point though and I'm removing the shield generator, some weapons and dropping his speed a little.

Long story short, I have only d6 and would hate to have to roll like 8 of them every time. Also... steel is steel.

As for your tank, it has a big gun, but the Gekka still has him by 2 size points.

As for maximum armour, there's no such thing imo because there's also no size limit. There are larger creations still, I doubt everything from size 5 and up is going to have the same armour.
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Re: Making stats for my vehicles

Postby Colette » Sat Aug 11, 2012 5:18 pm

Ok I see your point now. In the armory thread you made a big point about it being able to dodge heavy weapons so I was under the impression it would be difficult to hit as well as being difficult to destroy.

Just as a suggestion- do you own an iPhone? I too only own like 9d6 and 2d12 but I use an app called "Crit -d20 dice roller". It is NOT what it sounds like -(as in being limited to d20s) it has d4s, d8s, d10s, d12s, d20s and even d100s, and you can simultaneously roll batches of 20 of the same type of dice together. There's even a function where you can combine different dice and roll them together (ie nd6+nd10 for combining guns and explosions).
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Re: Making stats for my vehicles

Postby Bragallot » Sat Aug 11, 2012 5:45 pm

I don't, the most I ever spent on a mobile phone was 20 euros :wink: I can roll a huge amount of d6 when it's necessary though.

Back then I still wanted to make it like a normal Knightmare and had never really looked at the rules for vehicle creation properly, gradually I've started to realize how much I overdid it and that it was simply too big for that. I still want to build a more accurate one though... But it's gonna be difficult. As I recall it that argument was partially about Knightmares in general as well.

Here's how I got the armour ratings for most of the vehicles you see here up til now: I saw you got 1d10 armour for every size, assumed it went beyond 5d10 because I've seen HUGE creations like the AC's and took 5 as the average roll on a d10, so 40.
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Re: Making stats for my vehicles

Postby Zupponn » Sun Aug 12, 2012 12:16 am

Most people use 3d6 for OTC damage? I've been using 2d6 for a while now and find that to be almost a guaranteed kill every time. If I ever started using the new armor rules, I could see using 3d6 though.
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Re: Making stats for my vehicles

Postby Bragallot » Sun Aug 12, 2012 3:29 am

I think so, if you use 2d6 and most of your units have 4 base armour and people can't parry it it's almost a guaranteed kill, against heroes and other tougher targets it won't be as good however, and with 5 base armour you'd be surprised how many times it fails. 3d6 is a lot, yet they are often necessary against really tough units: OTC's are my one guarantee that 'nothing is safe', so to speak, and personally I just love the wreckage they cause 8)

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:wtf:

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Re: Making stats for my vehicles

Postby IVhorseman » Sun Aug 12, 2012 2:30 pm

Colette wrote:Just as a suggestion- do you own an iPhone? I too only own like 9d6 and 2d12 but I use an app called "Crit -d20 dice roller". It is NOT what it sounds like -(as in being limited to d20s) it has d4s, d8s, d10s, d12s, d20s and even d100s, and you can simultaneously roll batches of 20 of the same type of dice together. There's even a function where you can combine different dice and roll them together (ie nd6+nd10 for combining guns and explosions).


Why do you iFags think your precious phones can do anything the internet can't?

http://www.roll-dice-online.com/


6 is the average roll on a d10. I don't know where you understood that being larger magically grants you more armor, but even a size 30 glass sculpture will shatter upon taking a single point of damage. Armor ratings are really based around what you think is "fair" and "proper" for a specific type of creation. For maximum fun, tank-like armor should never go much past 3d10, and anything more than 5d10 is right out. Having to deal 40 damage to your thing to even dent it is anything BUT slow - you're actually prolonging the game here. Large creations need the ability to accidentally roll a bunch of 1s for their armor, because that shit's hilarious.

Anyways, if you wanna eliminate armor rolls entirely, you'd wanna max out at 5x6=30 armor.
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Re: Making stats for my vehicles

Postby Bragallot » Sun Aug 12, 2012 3:00 pm

6 is the average roll on a d10


Yes, I thought of that, you can already tell I'm not trying to max out his armour because I used 5.

I don't know where you understood that being larger magically grants you more armor


Common sense. His armour is actually physically much much thicker than the other creations you see here, partially because the other mechs are hollow on the inside (for the pilot to fit in) while the Gekka has a hatch on the back, meaning the body is solid steel pretty much all the way through.

even a size 30 glass sculpture will shatter upon taking a single point of damage


It's a good thing I didn't build a mech out of glass then ^^

Armor ratings are really based around what you think is "fair" and "proper" for a specific type of creation


I agree. I've played a lot of battles since I got here, and even combined small arms fire damage often goes through the roof especially on bigger targets where there are many hits and thus many crits. Since most of my weapons have higher damage stats than what you're used to (to make up for the +1 armour minifigs have, which is only to make large melee weapons less OP, so the damage of everything else gets adjusted as well), even 1 crit from let's say an SMG-armed guy, which isn't even an anti-armour weapon, would men you're immediately looking at at least 10 damage. 6 guys with SMG's would always hit (except for those who crit fail, so let's say 5 hit), if you take 4 as an average roll on a d6 and know they get +3 damage, that's 35 average damage already for a squad that doesn't even have anti-armour weapons and thus isn't really supposed to be able to hurt something like this, but they still can, and that's assuming you have nothing more than those 5 guys to shoot at the Gekka... which you probably will because the Gekka's cost is really high so you will outnumber me if I field it.

That is, unless you field an SDT or a giant mech of your own.

I understand 40 seems like a lot, and it is, because it's a HFM, but he's far from invulnerable (not only because there's always more options than just the most conventional way of damaging something...), trust me. An example I could give is Natalya's minifig-scale Venus which was also bigger than anything else on the field taking a serious beating from lots of combined fire in Death War.

Large creations need the ability to accidentally roll a bunch of 1s for their armor, because that shit's hilarious


I don't really agree on this because as I said steel is steel and it isn't soft the one second and tough on the next. 'Hitting vulnerable spots' is already covered by the varying damage rolls and in all the battles I've played with fixed armour ratings (a lot...) I've found leaving the ability to roll crits to the attacker actually gives him more of an advantage.

Edit: just to illustrate what I'm saying and how my weapons are quite destructive, I just made some test rolls:

6 SMG's (UR 3, Da 1d6+3) - I rolled 3 times, and they scored 36-39 damage every time. Only just not enough to damage him, but that's only normal because their weapons aren't even supposed to be used against something like the Gekka and as you can see they did get close, even when they weren't rolling crits.
6 Anti-armour weapons (UR 5, Da, 2d6+2) - The first roll they beat the armour comfortably by 8 points and that was when 2 guys missed, the second time they dealt over 80 combined damage, thus dealing 2 points of damage at once. It was a crit-fest and highly unlikely, but as you can see, it can happen and it's just as 'hilarious' as low rolls on an armour roll.

Keep in mind they had +2 to hit (would've been more if I hadn't assumed the Gekka would be moving at full speed)
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