Presidential Debate Discussion

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Re: Presidential Debate Discussion

Postby IVhorseman » Tue Oct 23, 2012 5:07 pm

Why doesn't the government (who definitely does not have a shitton of money) just pay regular cops then? like they already do?

Privatization would only mean that their contracts open up, and that corporations with more money than the government (there are several) could just swoop up on that shit and protect themselves. Then they'd declare themselves "job creators" and their omnipotent wisdom will be justified no matter what happens.

What about poor people without job skills? Are they unworthy of police protection?
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Re: Presidential Debate Discussion

Postby Bragallot » Tue Oct 23, 2012 6:08 pm

Yeah, the unemployed would be seriously fucked.

Even more than they already are, that is.

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Re: Presidential Debate Discussion

Postby Natalya » Wed Oct 24, 2012 3:33 am

Bragallot wrote:Yeah, the unemployed would be seriously fucked.

Even more than they already are, that is.

Silva, :troll: ?


I'm calling troll on this one.
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Re: Presidential Debate Discussion

Postby muffinman42 » Wed Oct 24, 2012 1:30 pm

So basically have the government pay some crapitalist to run the police for them? As opposed to having a government minister run it?
You Americans and your obsession with privatising everything really confuses me.
Fire:
"Sorry mame we can only save one of your sons for that amount, which do you like best?"
Police:
"Can you describe the man who stole your car?"
"Ok, that will be $500 now and $3000 when we find the car"
Medical:
"Maybe you should of thought to get our Premium Deluxe insurance before getting cancer"
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Re: Presidential Debate Discussion

Postby Silverdream » Wed Oct 24, 2012 1:42 pm

muffinman42 wrote:So basically have the government pay some crapitalist to run the police for them? As opposed to having a government minister run it?
You Americans and your obsession with privatising everything really confuses me.
Fire:
"Sorry mame we can only save one of your sons for that amount, which do you like best?"
Police:
"Can you describe the man who stole your car?"
"Ok, that will be $500 now and $3000 when we find the car"
Medical:
"Maybe you should of thought to get our Premium Deluxe insurance before getting cancer"


That word alone makes you look like an idiot. Enough with your Ad Hominem Logical Fallacy bullshit.

What you're describing is what's known as a Strawman argument. You are being ridiculous(and most likely trolling with that crapitalist comment). Job Creators would have to have a good image and treat their employees well so they don't use strikes against them. Thusly if you work for a corporation you would have some form of Police Insurance, where the police not only have to protect you but also have to punish criminals who steal from you.

Where are the poor unemployed masses in this? Forming neighbourhood watches of course.
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Re: Presidential Debate Discussion

Postby IVhorseman » Wed Oct 24, 2012 2:37 pm

Who are these mystical Job Creators you keep referring to?

And enough with your rhetorical analysis of everyone's objections to your bad idea, you're just using circular reasoning at this point to distract us that this doesn't make any goddamn sense. Poor unemployable people are too busy figuring out how the fuck they're going to eat to set up neighborhood watches.
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Re: Presidential Debate Discussion

Postby Silverdream » Wed Oct 24, 2012 2:46 pm

Ad Hominem, look it up idiot.

How am I using circular logic? I'm just establishing my points and the facts behind them. NONE OF WHICH either of you could counter.
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Re: Presidential Debate Discussion

Postby stubby » Wed Oct 24, 2012 2:51 pm

All right, how many of you are actually arguing and how many are just feeding an obvious troll for fun.

We had privatized firemen for awhile about a century ago. When funds ran short because business was slow, they would go out and set fires on purpose. It's why we don't have privatized fire companies anymore.

A century ago the privatized police were street gangs. Same as the firemen, when business was slow they started up protection rackets. We already tried it, we already know what happens.
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Re: Presidential Debate Discussion

Postby RoC77 » Wed Oct 24, 2012 3:18 pm

Privatized police makes no sense to me. I'd only support it if it could lead to this...

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Re: Presidential Debate Discussion

Postby stubby » Wed Oct 24, 2012 3:30 pm

This is the first convincing argument I've heard in this thread. RoC77 wins
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Re: Presidential Debate Discussion

Postby Nitewatchman » Wed Oct 24, 2012 7:20 pm

stubby wrote:A century ago the privatized police were street gangs. Same as the firemen, when business was slow they started up protection rackets. We already tried it, we already know what happens.

Don't they still set up rackets and things now?

Maybe we should just pay them more.
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Re: Presidential Debate Discussion

Postby Silverdream » Wed Oct 24, 2012 7:50 pm

I was actually leading up to Robocop, I just needed an appropriate set up.
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Re: Presidential Debate Discussion

Postby muffinman42 » Thu Oct 25, 2012 4:05 pm

"Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone."
-John Maynard Keynes.
Bitch you can't argue with Keynes.
Capitalism is flawed, you can't say that unemployment, terrible working conditions in the 3rd world and the LAST 4 YEARS aren't evidence of it's failure.

Personally I believe Emergency services and Transport should be controlled by the government. Emergency services since if you start playing with human lives for profit you might as well just fine people for murder. and transport since imagine if you had to pay to use EVERY path, road, pavement, bridge. and also since It's actually CHEAPER for the government to run public transport, since the UK's railways where privatised the government has payed out more in bail-outs to them than the budget of BR yet they give crap service on expensive tickets.
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Re: Presidential Debate Discussion

Postby Tzan » Thu Oct 25, 2012 4:55 pm

Unemployment is evidence of capitalism's success.

Capitalism requires a certain amount of people to be unemployed so that there is a pool of people to hire from.
If unemployment were at 0% there would be nobody to hire.
Company growth and stock prices would stagnate or drop.

Higher unemployment means lower wages, so companies can show bigger profits.
Low unemployment means higher wages as companies compete over skilled employees and thus creates lower profit and stock prices.

Its a lie to say that everyone can achieve and become millionaires.
Its mandatory that most must suffer if a few are to bask in millions.

Its the poor who made them rich and yet the rich still scoff at the notion of helping the poor.

Its possible to restructure the economy to reward innovation and yet still support those in the middle and lower classes.
There are millions of unemployable people who are treated worse than animals.
You really wouldn't want them in your company.
But it doesn't hurt to support them with an ounce of the same charity those rich people claim to have when they go to church.
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Re: Presidential Debate Discussion

Postby Silverdream » Thu Oct 25, 2012 10:47 pm

Yeah we get it, you guys hate America.
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