Selling computer parts

You know, whatever

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Re: Selling computer parts

Postby Natalya » Wed Apr 17, 2013 1:21 pm

IVhorseman wrote:
mgb519 wrote:Natalya is to meter what Blitzen is/was to grammar.


Except that she's strictly wrong.

Poetry, by definition, is an expression of thought placed into non-gramatical line and meter. Though there are guidelines, THERE ARE NO ACTUAL RULES. So when you go around a thread and keep telling people that their poetry is wrong, I'm going to stand up against you. If using a name you hate will match the "proper" rules of what YOU define as a haiku (again, poetry is defined by the author, not the reader - that's where meaning comes in), then I'm going to call you that. Don't tell me you ain't even mad, because you're a shitty-ass mod if you're going around stopping people from having fun just because you have the power to. I'm talking about Haikus, The Hill, and everything else you've deemed as "unfit for fun" for everybody else, based off of YOUR definitions and not theirs. I'm not going to actively try to piss you off so long as you stop being such a fucking fun-tyrant.

He might not LIKE being called Sam, but he's not asking you to ban people over it. We grin and bear it, because it's brikwars, and it'S OKAY TO LOSE. Shit dude, even in most of your battles you always field the vastly superior army with super-beefed up stats so that victory is assured. Sometimes things not going your specific way is fun. And if you keep silencing everyone else for having it, then Brikwars ain't what it used to be. Seriously, you even banned Warhead for TROLLING IN THUNDERDUMB. You're drunk with power, dude. And not the good kind of drunk, but the throwing-up-all-over-the-sink drunk, and we're probably going to draw on you with a marker once it's over.


I'm not going around banning people for the number of syllables that a Haiku they posted has. Like, me talking about a Haiku, that isn't the same as me using mod powers on people for doing a Haiku one way or another. The only mod thing that happened in here was I banned you for something you knew you were going to get banned for before you even posted it anyway. I don't even like banning you, I just dislike being called that even more than I dislike banning you so that's why I do it. Almost every time you argue with me you say that so it forces me to ban you so I'm afraid you're under the impression that arguing with me = ban when it does not, I'm just banning you for saying that word, not everything else you said. You can even insult me if you feel like it and I won't ban you for it, you just can't say that one word.

I haven't banned anyone for calling him Sam because he hasn't asked me to, so duh that hasn't happened yet so I don't know why you're complaining about that because it never happened.

By the way, I lose more often than I win. The only battles I played where I used the crazy OP Assyrians and straight-up won were in 2009, if you care to check the record. Later battles with the Assyrians where I won were either forum battles not hosted by me or they were ones where my participation didn't include use of their signature Heavy Laser Rifles. The most recent use of those was in Piltogg's attack for the Head Separator part 3 where he succeeded in killing most of the Assyrians anyway and he got the Head Separator, so that doesn't even count. But that is all beside the point anyway because I have discussed before, and I am pretty sure you read about this, that I have moved away from the Assyrians in general since late 2011 because I discovered that they weren't an extinct culture after all and because of their OP guns.

Regarding Warhead, the last time I banned him was because he directly asked me to ban him, and he is unbanned, so I'm not sure why he hasn't returned especially since he requested for me to ban him. Before that, yeah I banned like 8 people for King of the Hill shit in my thread in Thunderdumb but I didn't stop Colette from making a new King of the Hill thread which still exists in there if people want to go and post in it, just not my thread.
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Re: Selling computer parts

Postby IVhorseman » Wed Apr 17, 2013 2:32 pm

I don't give a shit about getting b&, i'll be right up front with that one. That's not what I'm arguing against. I'm specifically arguing against you because you getting up on a high horse and telling people that their haikus are bad and they should feel bad is only the latest in you defining how everyone else should be allowed to have fun. Fuck that, and fuck you.
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Re: Selling computer parts

Postby mgb519 » Wed Apr 17, 2013 3:06 pm

Ok, this is what I see:
Natalya gives a strongly worded, inflexible opinion.
Someone else reacts to her strongly worded inflexible opinion because they find it inflammatory.
This is roughly the same dynamics goes on between the extreme right and extreme left. It is fucking stupid, and widens the gap between people for no fucking reason. And it is made all the worse because you're not even arguing against each other. Can either of you list:
1. Exactly what your side of the argument is.
2. Exactly what the other side of the argument is. This is not "what point they are making," this is "how their stance on my point is opposite from mine."
3. Why it is an argument, where both sides interact and neither is strictly right or wrong, as opposed to a curb stomp. It's clearly not a curb stomp because you're both still going.
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Re: Selling computer parts

Postby ikensall » Wed Apr 17, 2013 3:17 pm

This is beginning to remind me of politics, but with more swearing. Perhaps that's why nothing ever seems to get done in government nowadays.
All stemming from a thread about selling computer parts, what can I say - :sparta:
Last edited by ikensall on Thu Apr 18, 2013 1:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Selling computer parts

Postby IVhorseman » Wed Apr 17, 2013 3:23 pm

1. Natalya often gives strongly worded, inflexible opinions, and makes rash decisions about what other people are allowed to say and do on the forums. Since she's actually here more often than Stubby is, she wields a complete imbalance of power, and is using it irresponsibly. Even when she doesn't ban someone, she's still using her position of power to tell people that their version of fun, construction toy usage, or poetry composition is "wrong." I'm tired of that, and want her to stop. I don't need her stripped of her modship or anything ridiculous like that, but I'd like her to recognize that other people enjoy things in different ways than she does, and for her to respect that.

2. I'm not really sure. It usually just devolves into some distraction about being called --- and how that's completely intolerable, which strays from the point. Ultimately, I think her stance on the point is that since she is the resident Goderator, she is justified in her decisions on who gets to have fun and how. She was entrusted to run the forums however she sees fit, and so she is doing so - end of story.

3. Both arguments interact over her position of power and the responsible use of such: while in her opinion she is doing just fine, my opinion is that she is blinded by the fact that she can simply ban anyone for any reason, including disagreeing with her. The FACT is that she holds all the power, while the rest of the forum has nearly zero power in comparison. If I or anyone else tells someone that their version of fun is okay and should be respected, it holds nowhere NEAR the weight that her shutting the whole thread down and declaring herself the winrar does.


To be fair, this is much more interesting than Samuel's unspecified 18" monitor.
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Re: Selling computer parts

Postby Natalya » Wed Apr 17, 2013 3:25 pm

IVhorseman wrote:I don't give a shit about getting b&, i'll be right up front with that one. That's not what I'm arguing against. I'm specifically arguing against you because you getting up on a high horse and telling people that their haikus are bad and they should feel bad is only the latest in you defining how everyone else should be allowed to have fun. Fuck that, and fuck you.


Where did I tell someone that they should feel bad or that their Haiku was bad? I made no value judgements and I didn't tell anyone to feel bad. I feel like you're taking what I say and then contextualizing it as an attack or a hostility and then you're reacting to the contextualization you have created instead of what I actually said.
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Re: Selling computer parts

Postby IVhorseman » Wed Apr 17, 2013 3:30 pm

That may be true, I'll admit to that. But telling someone that their haiku is wrong IS a value judgement - you're implying that what they created was completely valueless and worthless. If your words are so easy to interpret as an attack or hostility (which they very often are), you aren't realizing that yourself.
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Re: Selling computer parts

Postby Natalya » Wed Apr 17, 2013 3:55 pm

I hold some very strong opinions on certain things, but this Haiku business is not one of those things.

Back when the first Haiku thread was made a month or two ago I went on Wikipedia to learn what exactly a Haiku was because I could never remember the lengths of the lines. On the article about Haiku it says they are 5 - 7 - 5 but it isn't syllables, it actually refers to the number of Japanese characters needed to write the Haiku, but with some rule exceptions such as りゅ for example only counting as one because of the way it is pronounced out loud. Because they are a traditional element created by another culture I feel like it is good to observe those traditions to the extent possible, though with the Haiku made here we aren't actually observing all of their standard elements even when we do use the 5 - 7 - 5 structure. Whatever, the reason I was telling people about that was not to make them feel terrible, but because they might have not known about the traditional structure of a Haiku. I don't actually care that much if someone doesn't write one as 5 - 7 - 5, I just wanted people to know that is the way they are traditionally written in-case someone didn't know because I didn't know either until I looked it up.
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Re: Selling computer parts

Postby Tzan » Wed Apr 17, 2013 4:10 pm

IVhorseman wrote:That may be true, I'll admit to that. But telling someone that their haiku is wrong IS a value judgement -
you're implying that what they created was completely valueless and worthless.
If your words are so easy to interpret as an attack or hostility (which they very often are), you aren't realizing that yourself.


This haiku seems a bit long.
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Re: Selling computer parts

Postby stubby » Wed Apr 17, 2013 4:47 pm

IVhorseman wrote:To be fair, this is much more interesting than Samuel's unspecified 18" monitor.


:omnom:

I've got to say I'm weirdly fascinated by both sides of this argument.
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Re: Selling computer parts

Postby IVhorseman » Wed Apr 17, 2013 5:50 pm

Back when I was taking classes on poetry and other english-major specific classes (still in school, finishing my last semester of GEs), I've had it told to me by multiple teachers and textbooks that the 5-7-5 structure is an extremely common misinterpretation of what haiku actually is. In fact, since english does not use syllabic characters, Haikus "technically" can't be written in English. But obviously that's lame, so if someone's trying to write a haiku, we usually just go right ahead and say that it gets to be a haiku. It may not fit the exact strict meter, but even if it did it's still be "technically wrong" since it's in English. Just letting people write haikus is pretty okay, because having a 5-6-4 meter really isn't that much wronger. It's still creative expression.

As far as I can tell, the reason you were telling people they were wrong was because you looked something up on Wikipedia (the most reputable literature resource on the internet of course), and decided to lord that information over other people. Whether or not that was your intention, that's how it's interpreted. I realize you have some very strong opinion about things - and that's good! I just don't understand how someone so aware and in tune with the LGBT movement finds it necessary to tell people that what they like and do (the hill thread particularly strikes a bad chord with me - i thought it was stupid too but I just didn't post in it much and let them have their own fun) is wrong, dumb, stupid, or unworthy of being a part of Brikwars.

I took the effort to put my and your arguments (as I interperet them) in the terms that MGB laid out for us, and I think if you did the same that we'd come to a conclusion faster. I'd really like to hear what your interpretation of my argument is. So far, you seem to be ignoring it and mostly defending your own actions.
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Re: Selling computer parts

Postby Ben-Jammin » Thu Apr 18, 2013 10:51 am

stubby wrote:
IVhorseman wrote:To be fair, this is much more interesting than Samuel's unspecified 18" monitor.


:omnom:

I've got to say I'm weirdly fascinated by both sides of this argument.


I found this thread to be a good waste of my time before work today.
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Re: Selling computer parts

Postby Natalya » Thu Apr 18, 2013 11:27 am

IVhorseman wrote:because you looked something up on Wikipedia (the most reputable literature resource on the internet of course)


Maybe not in 2005, but today it is the best source of information on the internet.



Whatever, okay, in MGB's framework:

1: I don't really have a 'point' or whatever? I think arguments are stupid. Maybe I would say that it is my opinion that you have been too quick to criticize me as being a tyrant especially in relations to situations where I didn't actually use Mod powers? Maybe, and this is more meta here, some people actually think mods overstepping their power can be funny at times? Look at thread number 2 for example. Also, there was like some kind of sick contest between Zupponn and Silverdream to see who can accumulate the most bans. Maybe I do that shit too much though and okay you can call me on it if you want. I just want it to be clear that arguing with me ≠ a ban.

2: That I am going too far?

3: I don't like fighting. :(
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Re: Selling computer parts

Postby IVhorseman » Thu Apr 18, 2013 12:05 pm

Heh, I almost linked the rules page in my definition of your argument. These rules were made when there was only one administrator (Mike), and end-all be-all, he's the one those rules apply to, seeing as it says "Me" all over the place. But I digress.

Alright, let's entirely strip this argument of anything to do with modship: you shit on other people's fun. Plain and simple. That's what I'm calling you out on more than anything else. I definitely wouldn't say you're over-stepping your power - because clearly you have the power to do so. But I AM saying that you might be abusing that power.

It's something that I actively try to avoid myself - The rules and bonus materials forums (my favorite, and not just because I'm a mod of one) are full of other people's terribad ideas. I want to help these people come up with something better, but at the same time I have to walk the fine line and avoid telling people that their version of fun is somehow illegitamite. That wouldn't be cool. Sometimes I even overstep that line, and I'd appreciate getting called out on it. You, on the other hand, are in a much greater position of power, and the line to overstep has far greater consequences. And, when that line gets crossed, people get provoked. Then, once they are provoked, you quickly settle the situation with mod powers once THEY cross the line - and I'd say a bit too rashly at times, resulting in a net loss of fun for everybody. That's what happened here, that's what happens all over the forum.

I wouldn't want you to even really change much of what you do, I just want you to be aware.
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Re: Selling computer parts

Postby Natalya » Thu Apr 18, 2013 12:47 pm

I'm worried that people might be taking my opinions too seriously because of how strong they are in some cases. Okay yeah I banned people for that KotH shit, but whatever I'm not banning people for that anymore and they have a new thread etc. So let's talk about a more commonly recurring example:

Ball Joints

I'm worried that my dislike for them is ruining people's lives when really they just need to be like, "Whatever Natalya you aren't the lord of the Briks or some shit, I'll use ball joints if I want to." I mean, I think ball joints are often used in ways which destroy the art of the creation, but someone building something shouldn't be thinking about, "Oh fuck I hope this impresses Natalya," because like I'm not the lord of the Briks, I'm just the Goderator of the BrikWars forums, it is totally unrelated. I don't know what to do about this. I'm under the impression that I come across as a fun-sucker when I say, "Don't use ball joints," but at the same time my word isn't like the law or something.
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