governement shutdown?

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governement shutdown?

Postby motorhead fan » Wed Oct 09, 2013 1:01 pm

me being an english guy in Swissland and all that

well i heard something about the america guvment being shutdown or something, what does it mean?
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Re: governement shutdown?

Postby Natalya » Wed Oct 09, 2013 1:35 pm

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Re: governement shutdown?

Postby stubby » Wed Oct 09, 2013 2:34 pm

motorhead fan wrote:well i heard something about the america guvment being shutdown or something, what does it mean?

150 years ago, southern states seceded from the United States to form a Confederacy. We had this big civil war thing to change their minds, it lasted a couple of years, lots of people died, we ended up burning most everything in the south and abolishing slavery. We never quite reunited the country though; the Solid South has operated as a mostly separate government ever since, subject "in theory" to the same laws as the rest of the U.S. but enforcing their own system in practice.

While they were defeated from a military perspective, the war never ended; in the century and a half since the military defeat they've continued to try alternately to destroy the Union or bring it into line with Southern values with massive election fraud and coups. This current business is one of the destroy-America attempts. And yet somehow we never quite end up rounding up the terrorist legislators and shipping them off to Guantanamo, probably because the government shutdown prevents it.
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Re: governement shutdown?

Postby Overwatch_Elite » Wed Oct 09, 2013 3:51 pm

To sum it up in simpleton ways

-Yogi Bear isn't allowed outside
-We can't go to space
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Re: governement shutdown?

Postby samuelzz10 » Wed Oct 09, 2013 4:04 pm

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As you can see here, most confederate states are indeed politician, so Stubby isn't making shit up. It really pisses me off when people blame it on Obama, because the fucking whiny politicians who can't live with Obamacare are the reason the country is shut down for a while.

Not all too much has changed though. Major things like the Senate are down, but state governments are still up and running. The DMV for example is still up because it is enforced by the state (I think, I might be wrong) but other things like the FCC are basically shut down. (The FCC still has a few people sitting in, but just to make sure live broadcasts don't get out of hand)
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Re: governement shutdown?

Postby stubby » Wed Oct 09, 2013 4:23 pm

samuelzz10 wrote:As you can see here, most confederate states are indeed politician

This actually isn't a party-vs-party thing; the Confederate agenda was 100% in the D column up until the Civil Rights Act of 1964. It didn't fully switch over to R until the Southern Strategy got Reagan elected in 1980. They use whichever party best serves their purpose at the time.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dixiecrats

This shutdown thing right now is the work of a handful of southern-state congressmen putting the rest of their party in a bad position, knowing no one else in the party has the balls to stand up to them.
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Re: governement shutdown?

Postby samuelzz10 » Wed Oct 09, 2013 6:05 pm

stubby wrote:
samuelzz10 wrote:As you can see here, most confederate states are indeed politician

This actually isn't a party-vs-party thing; the Confederate agenda was 100% in the D column up until the Civil Rights Act of 1964. It didn't fully switch over to R until the Southern Strategy got Reagan elected in 1980. They use whichever party best serves their purpose at the time.


Yeah, but to me at least it seems the parties changed places in terms of equal rights and stuff like that. You probably (as in, definitely) know more about this than me, but I thought in the 1960s the politicians became politicians, and the politicians became politicians.
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Re: governement shutdown?

Postby Ben-Jammin » Wed Oct 09, 2013 6:22 pm

:protip: remove all the politicians!
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Re: governement shutdown?

Postby Overwatch_Elite » Wed Oct 09, 2013 7:43 pm

Ben-Jammin wrote::protip: remove all the politicians!

but then we'd have to go after disney and that's too much work
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Re: governement shutdown?

Postby stubby » Wed Oct 09, 2013 7:57 pm

samuelzz10 wrote:Yeah, but to me at least it seems the parties changed places in terms of equal rights and stuff like that. You probably (as in, definitely) know more about this than me, but I thought in the 1960s the politicians became politicians, and the politicians became politicians.

Well it's more subtle than that. It made a lot more sense back when we had a wider range of political parties rather than the bullshit fake "two"-party system we have now: financial corporatists versus military-industrial corporatists. But once upon a time there was a difference between Democrats and Republicans, and it was easy to remember.

Democrats believe that America is fundamentally a democracy - that is, its authority comes from the collective will of individual citizens, and so Democrats are primarily concerned with safeguarding citizens' rights. Republicans believe that America is fundamentally a republic - its authority comes from the hierarchy of federated states, and so Republicans are primarily concerned with optimizing the power and stability of the overall system.

Up until the civil rights movements, "citizen" meant white dudes only, so the battle between individual rights and systemic strength was mostly cast in terms of labor versus industry. When people started to catch on that all people should have the rights of citizens, not just the white guys, then it was clear that the real battle of individual rights versus systemic strength was about minorities versus the segregated establishment. (And the labor movement got thrown under the bus in the meantime, which is why the working class has zero political power in the U.S. anymore.)

So the basic focus of Democrats and Republicans never changed, just our definition of which people count as citizens.
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Re: governement shutdown?

Postby pirateofmayhem » Wed Oct 09, 2013 10:02 pm

stupid government shutdown. i'm a federal contractor, so i'm not getting backpay, unlike the rest of the federal government after the shutdown ends. woo hoo...burn it down
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Re: governement shutdown?

Postby Zupponn » Thu Oct 10, 2013 1:10 am

From what little I've cared to listen about the whole thing, it seems like it's not a Dem vs Rep battle, but instead a Rep vs Rep battle, particularly a Tea Party vs the rest of the Rep party battle.
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Re: governement shutdown?

Postby Natalya » Thu Oct 10, 2013 8:15 pm

The longer the D's hold their ground the better their chances at emerging as victors, or seeing the other party crumble in 2014. But still a long shot.
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Re: governement shutdown?

Postby Overwatch_Elite » Thu Oct 10, 2013 8:41 pm

OR as an alternative the revolution could finally come to light and we introduce anarcho communism to the US
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Re: governement shutdown?

Postby pirateofmayhem » Tue Oct 15, 2013 10:56 pm

im down for anarchy, as i have no paycheck coming in now for over 2 weeks. unemployment sucks lol
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