"Leader" units

Rules questions, suggestions, and discussion

Moderators: Pwnerade, IVhorseman

Re: "Leader" units

Postby Quantumsurfer » Wed Jan 30, 2013 6:44 am

Whiteagle wrote:The logic is friendly troops will fight harder when they are in the presence of prestigious leaders hoping to receive recognition, while enemy troops will hound them to obtain glory.
In essence, you could say it turns a leader into a mini-objective, successfully capturing one alive could allow you to use those bonuses to decimate his army, but if they get close enough to rescue him you could be screwed.


Ooo, that's interesting.
User avatar
Quantumsurfer
Thank god for Colette.
 
Posts: 1378
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2011 5:27 pm

Re: "Leader" units

Postby samuelzz10 » Wed Jan 30, 2013 6:11 pm

I think the difference between a normal supernatural unit and a leader is the leader gets free range, and he can only use it to buff his allies stats.
Image
Spoiler: show
my old sig
Image

WARNING: Posts in forum may have been edited by forum
Image
User avatar
samuelzz10
n00b
n00b
 
Posts: 1521
Joined: Sun Oct 04, 2009 7:09 pm
Location: planet express

Re: "Leader" units

Postby aoffan23 » Wed Jan 30, 2013 8:58 pm

samuelzz10 wrote:I think the difference between a normal supernatural unit and a leader is the leader gets free range, and he can only use it to buff his allies stats.


I think Mike wants some kind of penalty for losing a leader. Going back to normal isn't really a disadvantage, it's just a loss of an advantage. An army should be hit pretty hard by the loss of a powerful leader, rather than just shrug it off and do what they would do if there were no leader in the first place.
Tzan wrote:
Quantumsurfer wrote:I generally agree with Tzan
Warhead wrote:I agree with QuantumSmurfer.



I agree with Warhead.
User avatar
aoffan23
Pooplord
 
Posts: 3214
Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2010 7:41 pm
Location: America's conjoined twin.

Re: "Leader" units

Postby samuelzz10 » Wed Jan 30, 2013 10:07 pm

aoffan23 wrote:
samuelzz10 wrote:I think the difference between a normal supernatural unit and a leader is the leader gets free range, and he can only use it to buff his allies stats.


I think Mike wants some kind of penalty for losing a leader. Going back to normal isn't really a disadvantage, it's just a loss of an advantage. An army should be hit pretty hard by the loss of a powerful leader, rather than just shrug it off and do what they would do if there were no leader in the first place.
I guess all squads lose any kind of connection, scouts or any other stealth unit loose all spotted units, propane and propane accessories no longer work, (for 3 turns) and all skill rolls are crit fails for that turn. As an extra, your team gets a different leader but he gets -1 to all rolls, repeat every time a leader dies. I think if a card is made there should be costs for various leaders, so you could determine how many dice they have with the added CP on the back in a table. I could calculate it, but I think it would be used more for determining which leader stats we'll use before a game.
Image
Spoiler: show
my old sig
Image

WARNING: Posts in forum may have been edited by forum
Image
User avatar
samuelzz10
n00b
n00b
 
Posts: 1521
Joined: Sun Oct 04, 2009 7:09 pm
Location: planet express

Re: "Leader" units

Postby IVhorseman » Thu Jan 31, 2013 3:43 am

You know, I rather like squads because you can simply attach a bunch of dudes to a little plate and move that whole unit around without thinking about it too hard - that's something I'd like to see preserved. But we're not here to talk about squad combat.

stubby wrote:6. An Officer unit. This guy will be pretty common, not limited by Ego the way Heroes are; his job is to hand out those kinds of inspiration bonuses automatically. The current plan is that any Squad with at least one Officer will get a +1 die size Skill boost to everyone in the Squad automatically, up to 1d8. But this could be more varied - maybe they can choose between a +1 Skill size, a +2" Move, a +1 Momentum, etc. Maybe any Squad with an Officer gets an Instant Benny every turn, although those are better suited for individuals than for squads.


I like it, and currently play with these: works fine to me. I don't know about the alternate bonuses: while they're cool, I think having more than 3 of them delves into "here's a big list of bonuses we're going to 'allow' you to have" territory. Instant Benny doesn't quite sit right with me.

stubby wrote:7. A Leader unit. As opposed to Officers, this role will be exclusive - only one guy can be Leader at any time, although maybe there would be ways to pass on the role if a Leader is killed. His job would be to hand out the kinds of general inspiration bonuses that we're currently getting from Heroic Feats, available to anyone, not just his own squad. He would be able to grant inspiration to one action per turn, but there's no limit to how many units might participate in that one action; this makes a Leader's bonus most effective when applied to a bunch of people working together rather than an individual action. (Examples: Everybody fire on that entry hatch, everyone brace for impact, everyone double-time it to the latrines, etc.) I don't like idea of making a new class of Leadership Feats - it just sits wrong with me for some reason - but that might be an option; I would also look at granting Blessing-style rerolls.


Right now, most brikwars players just use their hero as their leader. This idea's really cool, but I think calling this guy a "leader" would just confuse people - that's still your hero's job since he's clearly the most badass. Instead, what about a "Commander" (not to be confused with Commando)? I think that the "one action" should be applicable to the whole army whenever possible ("move towards the enemy objective, board all transports, attack the giant lobster"), but would have to be more specific than "attack the enemy."

That said, I like the Brikwars philosophy that while officers and commanders hold the leadership roles on the field, it's still the heroes that call all the shots. Giving a commander any better than 1d8 skill would be inadvisable: 1d6 may even be more appropriate. What other stats would you consider for a Commander? Officer stats? Minifig stats?

stubby wrote:8. A Banner equipment item that serves to inspire nearby units, either within a certain range or within the squad that posesses it. Any inspiring symbol will do; holy relics, artifakt weapons, giant drums, whatever. These would be much more likely tied to specific bonuses - a trumpet of +1d6 attack damage, an icon of +1d6 Armor, a Leonidas's Mom of +1 Skill, etc. The bonuses are handy but, because it's an equipment item, it can be stolen and then you get the equivalent penalty when your enemies parade it around all desecrated or whatever.


Hell yes. My vote's for them to benefit squads, but only if forming up as a squad doesn't cost an action and is just stupidly easy to do. I know the original intention of the action cost was to speed up the game, but recently I've discovered that players shouting "WHAT DO YOU MEAN THAT COSTS AN ACTION" slows it right back down, along with debating whether or not it's worth the action. No penalty means no question, which means the game goes on like Bonn-o-Tron.

Colette wrote:There should be a politician/diplomat stat card, for people who do order withdrawing from combat safely, negotiating more diplomatically, and surrendering more sweetly.

What are you, french?
:wtc:

A diplomat working off of the same principle as the alliance/betrayal dice pool is hilarious though. Give him +1d6 every turn, and treat his d6 like a curse that affects all friendly units' skill as long as he's alive and filibustering. Heroic and Professional minifigs are unburdened by the politikal red tape, but most common minifigs with 1d6 skill suffer negatively from the bureaucratic blunders.
User avatar
IVhorseman
If she don't want the brick, she won't get the dick
 
Posts: 6349
Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2007 10:12 pm
Location: The Abyss

Re: "Leader" units

Postby *CRAZYHORSE* » Thu Jan 31, 2013 9:47 am

6.
I like what you are saying IV. IMO officers shouldn't be a to complicated or powerful unit. They should just be there to promote squad use. +1 dice size up to 1d8 seems the best and most simple solution right now. Maybe something along the lines of gibing squads the ability to charge with out pointy weapons, it wouldn't give them an extra damage die but it would allow them to incorporate a sprint which would make them a more mobile unit and quicker to engage in combat. Just a idea.

7.
The Banner/relic/drums/inspirational object idea is something I really like. Of course the inspirational object effects should be that they somehow fuel the blood lust and killing spree desire of the squad. I think this ties in well with the blessing style re-rolls of their attack rolls. This would sufficiently boost a unit's chance to hit to match the killing frenzy it puts the squad in. I don't know about what kind of effect it should have when captured by the enemy though. Of course to gain effects from a captured inspirational object you should perform a shameful display with it. A inspirational banner should have profanities draw on it. A inspirational instrument should play U CAN"T TOUCH THIS by MC HAMMER. a inspirational corpse of a long past hero should be put in a dress and put on some makeup. Anyway just capturing and holding the inspirational object shouldn't be enough to gain effect from it. It should be put an a shameful display paraded around for everybody to see.

8.
The General/Commander type unit shouldn't be too keen on going into actual combat. He is the guy sitting at the back somewhere overviewing the battlefield and running the chaotic mess he calls his army. It's his job to organize and focus his army onto completing whatever objective they are trying to achieve. To prevent player from setting very lame objectives such as "attack the enemy" all commands giving by the commander should be given in the form of " 'verb'-THAT-'noun' ". This would result in more specefic commands such as "capture that artillery battery", "destroy that tank", "attack that brothel", "embark that ship" etc.
stubby wrote:You were inb4beluga.
User avatar
*CRAZYHORSE*
My Little Pony
 
Posts: 1758
Joined: Fri Feb 29, 2008 6:10 pm
Location: Procrasturbating.

Re: "Leader" units

Postby stubby » Thu Jan 31, 2013 10:30 am

IVhorseman wrote:You know

I agree with everything in this post.

IVhorseman wrote:I like the Brikwars philosophy that while officers and commanders hold the leadership roles on the field, it's still the heroes that call all the shots.

Especially this part. I was thinking too conventionally about leaders, when they should be satiric if they're included at all.


IVhorseman wrote:Heroic and Professional minifigs are unburdened by the politikal red tape, but most common minifigs with 1d6 skill suffer negatively from the bureaucratic blunders.

There are so many funny things to do with Diplomats and Politicians and Rules Lawyers and the like, but most of them have the effect of slowing down the action or decreasing the level of violence somehow and I need to remind myself that I definitely want to avoid throwing any weight behind those kinds of mechanics. If there was a way to turn Popular Opinion into an offensive mechanic it could be funny though.
User avatar
stubby
forum janitor
 
Posts: 4729
Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2007 8:31 pm

Re: "Leader" units

Postby IVhorseman » Thu Jan 31, 2013 1:06 pm

I'm completely against a diplomat because it would be a unit that promotes LESS violence - there's no way around that. Good for scenario games perhaps, but strongly recommended against otherwise.

Having officers be able to use their special d8 for their alternate bonuses could be nice (sprinting 1d8 inches, adding 1d8 dmg to a big attack) too.

*CRAZYHORSE* wrote:7. The Banner/relic/drums/inspirational object idea is something I really like. Of course the inspirational object effects should be that they somehow fuel the blood lust and killing spree desire of the squad. I think this ties in well with the blessing style re-rolls of their attack rolls. This would sufficiently boost a unit's chance to hit to match the killing frenzy it puts the squad in. I don't know about what kind of effect it should have when captured by the enemy though. Of course to gain effects from a captured inspirational object you should perform a shameful display with it. A inspirational banner should have profanities draw on it. A inspirational instrument should play U CAN"T TOUCH THIS by MC HAMMER. a inspirational corpse of a long past hero should be put in a dress and put on some makeup. Anyway just capturing and holding the inspirational object shouldn't be enough to gain effect from it. It should be put an a shameful display paraded around for everybody to see.


What I like the MOST about the banner idea is how open-ended it is. Want a banner of blessing? sure, go for it. Drums of +2" move? Okay! Feel free to stack all the awesome bonuses on the banner, because they'll get reversed once the banner's desecrated. Blessings become curses, move penalties and skill loss will run amok. My only beef is remembering which squads/figs the penalty applies to once the squad breaks up. Does the penalty get lost? are they stuck with it for the rest of the game? Does it suddenly apply to my whole army?

I think as long as the minifig spends an action to desecrate a banner that it should be considered sufficiently desecrated - some desecrations, like wiping some poop that was handily in-hand all over it, might even be free actions. Either way, the physical model DOES have to get fucked up somehow.

Imma give a commander officer stats and test it out next time I brikwar and let you know how it goes. A good, awesome battlefield should be littered with Officers and Commanders because it's awesome, but I still want to see how they compare to a hero.
User avatar
IVhorseman
If she don't want the brick, she won't get the dick
 
Posts: 6349
Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2007 10:12 pm
Location: The Abyss

Re: "Leader" units

Postby Tzan » Thu Jan 31, 2013 1:15 pm

Poo on a Stick of +1 bowel cleaning.
User avatar
Tzan
Pooplord
 
Posts: 4881
Joined: Sun Dec 30, 2007 4:41 pm
Location: Boston

Re: "Leader" units

Postby Silverdream » Thu Jan 31, 2013 3:36 pm

The pale thighs of peach defense +1.
Image

Spoiler: show
mgb519 wrote:Seriously, you are now the first ever forum superhero.


Colette wrote:I hereby acknowledge Silverdream as the one and only forum troll as agreed in the bet.


Quantumsurfer wrote:No, I have 2 silver.
User avatar
Silverdream
Blockguy
 
Posts: 7476
Joined: Sun Mar 15, 2009 5:33 pm
Location: In a giant pile of potatoes and red meat.

Re: "Leader" units

Postby *CRAZYHORSE* » Thu Jan 31, 2013 5:48 pm

IVhorseman wrote: My only beef is remembering which squads/figs the penalty applies to once the squad breaks up. Does the penalty get lost? are they stuck with it for the rest of the game? Does it suddenly apply to my whole army?
\
What about if it applies to every unit who can physically see (or hear in certain cases) the desecration of the inspirational object. This would also motivate players to come up with the most extreme and hilarious profanities. It would also motivate players to parade the captured object on top of a hill or place the poop smeared banner on the back of a dragon and fly it over the enemy's ranks and other hilarious display methods.
stubby wrote:You were inb4beluga.
User avatar
*CRAZYHORSE*
My Little Pony
 
Posts: 1758
Joined: Fri Feb 29, 2008 6:10 pm
Location: Procrasturbating.

Re: "Leader" units

Postby stubby » Thu Jan 31, 2013 6:05 pm

IVhorseman wrote:I'm completely against a diplomat because it would be a unit that promotes LESS violence - there's no way around that.

Not necessarily. Mediks exist to increase suffering. Police exist to maintain a proper level of murder. Jobs in BrikWars often have the opposite motivation from what you'd think they would.

Honestly though, I don't know how diplomats could be made useful unless their role is to fire up civilians into militants or summon crowds of Cannon Fodder from nowhere or something. They'd go under a "Demagogue" umbrella with a bunch of other roles - diplomat / politician / rabblerouser / celebrity / missionary / news anchor / rock star / televangelist / motivational speaker etc.

IVhorseman wrote:What I like the MOST about the banner idea is how open-ended it is. Want a banner of blessing? sure, go for it. Drums of +2" move? Okay! Feel free to stack all the awesome bonuses on the banner, because they'll get reversed once the banner's desecrated. Blessings become curses, move penalties and skill loss will run amok. My only beef is remembering which squads/figs the penalty applies to once the squad breaks up. Does the penalty get lost? are they stuck with it for the rest of the game? Does it suddenly apply to my whole army?

I'm thinking a friendly banner benefits its Squad, but a desecrated banner will affect everyone with line-of-sight. Like you really, really won't want to let an enemy get hold of your banner, and you'll want to destroy it in a hurry if they're successful in desecrating it.
User avatar
stubby
forum janitor
 
Posts: 4729
Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2007 8:31 pm

Re: "Leader" units

Postby *CRAZYHORSE* » Thu Jan 31, 2013 6:08 pm

stubby wrote:I'm thinking a friendly banner benefits its Squad, but a desecrated banner will affect everyone with line-of-sight. Like you really, really won't want to let an enemy get hold of your banner, and you'll want to destroy it in a hurry if they're successful in desecrating it.

Haha that's what I just said.
stubby wrote:You were inb4beluga.
User avatar
*CRAZYHORSE*
My Little Pony
 
Posts: 1758
Joined: Fri Feb 29, 2008 6:10 pm
Location: Procrasturbating.

Re: "Leader" units

Postby stubby » Thu Jan 31, 2013 6:11 pm

curses :fist:
User avatar
stubby
forum janitor
 
Posts: 4729
Joined: Sat Dec 29, 2007 8:31 pm

Re: "Leader" units

Postby Colette » Thu Jan 31, 2013 6:31 pm

stubby wrote:Honestly though, I don't know how diplomats could be made useful unless their role is to fire up civilians into militants or summon crowds of Cannon Fodder from nowhere or something. They'd go under a "Demagogue" umbrella with a bunch of other roles - diplomat / politician / rabblerouser / celebrity / missionary / news anchor / rock star / televangelist / motivational speaker etc.


Image
Image
(apparently the above guy had a gun with him during his speech)
Image
Image

Generally this article describes putting the ass in ambassador
Image
Image
Because everything's better with math...and firepower.
User avatar
Colette
I for one personally welcome clown face bologna
 
Posts: 2551
Joined: Tue Apr 12, 2011 6:04 pm
Location: This Forum

PreviousNext

Return to The Rulebook

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests