Automatic Fire for Brikwars 2005

Rules questions, suggestions, and discussion

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Postby birdman » Wed Dec 24, 2008 1:50 pm

I like this thread. and 5 on a single topic seems a bit excessive.
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Postby IVhorseman » Wed Dec 24, 2008 6:15 pm

Blitzen wrote:Why did you revive this thread, anyway? It wouldn't hurt to have a fifth Autofire thread.


Birdman did it.
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Postby Cpl. Halan » Sat Dec 27, 2008 4:05 pm

I personally consider auto rifles to use shot groups so they do standard damage but SMGs are like pistols but they shoot twice(if you want to) but the second shot has a +1 to use for each extra shot(if a minifig dual wields SMGs this continues), machineguns are the same but they cannot be carried by a minifig and fired on the same turn and do rifle damage.
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Postby IVhorseman » Sun Dec 28, 2008 4:29 pm

Ah, the machineguns you've got sound a lot like the HMG rules I came up with. I too figured that it should take minifigs a turn to set up the gun in a prime spot, but I made up for that by letting it suppress infantry.
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Postby mithril » Wed Jan 07, 2009 2:53 pm

it seems to me the simplest approach would be:

weapon cost+1cp
this weapon can fire twice per turn.

if shooting at one target, it means two chances to inflict damage.
or one shot each at two different targets.
if firing at a squad, it means a chance to kill two minifigs in one volley.
or one shot each at two different squads.

each shot would be rolled for seperately (though using multiple dice, it could be done quickly)

thus an automatic rifle would be 6cp. a long range weapon, + automatic fire. for two shots at use 3, 1D6+1 damage per turn.
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Postby Greenkey15 » Wed Jan 07, 2009 4:09 pm

IV, you get a very large, warm, soft chocolate chunk cookie for this thread. These are the best automatic fire rules I have heard. Ever. Of all time.

PS: How does the finger cone work? Do you make a finger cone at the target and all in that cone are attacked?
PSS: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8n1hKQULa9Y

1:55 reminds me of the auto-fire rules!
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Postby pesgores » Wed Jan 07, 2009 4:20 pm

mithril wrote:it seems to me the simplest approach would be:

weapon cost+1cp
this weapon can fire twice per turn.

if shooting at one target, it means two chances to inflict damage.
or one shot each at two different targets.
if firing at a squad, it means a chance to kill two minifigs in one volley.
or one shot each at two different squads.

each shot would be rolled for seperately (though using multiple dice, it could be done quickly)

thus an automatic rifle would be 6cp. a long range weapon, + automatic fire. for two shots at use 3, 1D6+1 damage per turn.


The problem is, automatic weapons do not shoot only 2 rounds per turn, if a turn lasts 3 seconds.
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Postby IVhorseman » Thu Jan 08, 2009 12:32 am

mithril wrote:it seems to me the simplest approach would be:

weapon cost+1cp
this weapon can fire twice per turn.

if shooting at one target, it means two chances to inflict damage.
or one shot each at two different targets.
if firing at a squad, it means a chance to kill two minifigs in one volley.
or one shot each at two different squads.

each shot would be rolled for seperately (though using multiple dice, it could be done quickly)

thus an automatic rifle would be 6cp. a long range weapon, + automatic fire. for two shots at use 3, 1D6+1 damage per turn.


Problem here is that the same guy can fire at a guy right in front of him, AND at a guy right behind him. Personally, I find that kindof lame, and it doesn't really "feel" like the machineguns in action movies. It feels like shooting twice.

As for how a fingercone works, it's as easy as it sounds: for a two-finger cone, take two adjacent fingers and make an angle. Everything within this angle is shot at. three finger cone means three fingers, and it continues until five. The UR penalty for how wide your angle is equal to how many fingers you're holding up: so a two-finger cone is a +2 penalty to UR.
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Postby mithril » Thu Jan 08, 2009 1:38 pm

Problem here is that the same guy can fire at a guy right in front of him, AND at a guy right behind him. Personally, I find that kindof lame, and it doesn't really "feel" like the machineguns in action movies. It feels like shooting twice.

i don't know, i've seen plenty of over-the-top action movies where in the span of a few seconds the hero uses a rapid fire pistol, rifle, or MG to shoot several targets seperated widely.

and isn't that sorta the byword for brikwars combat? "over-the-top?"

plus, the rules would disallow a shot behind a minifig (except perhaps with a heroic action, which tosses the rules out the window anyway)
the rules chapter 5 wrote:In order to be able to attack a target, a minifig must be able to strike it with a weapon. This requires a couple of common-sense checks.
Can he see the target?
The minifig must have a clear line of sight between his eyes and some visible part of the target.

unless the minifig can see through his own head, this would prevent a minifig from shooting backwards. it basically would limit them to a 180 degree cone forwards.


The problem is, automatic weapons do not shoot only 2 rounds per turn, if a turn lasts 3 seconds.

yeah, but not all hit. the question here is "does automatic fire mean 'fires many bullets' or 'reloads at a rapid rate'" last i checked, it was more the later, though the later enables the former. a person with an assualt rifle can fire a burst of bullets at a target (which basically doubles the chance of getting a wound on them), or they can fire single shots in rapid succession because the weapon action cycles fast.

while that degree of "realism" probably doesn't fit brikwars, the abstracted approach of a weapon shooting twice a turn manages to capture the feel, if not the details, of that reality.
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Postby IVhorseman » Thu Jan 08, 2009 5:36 pm

mithril wrote:i don't know, i've seen plenty of over-the-top action movies where in the span of a few seconds the hero uses a rapid fire pistol, rifle, or MG to shoot several targets seperated widely.


But not every minifigure is the hero. We need to remember that a good majority of the units you're using are going to be the generic soldier with a machinegun. Not everyone can be a hero, but anyone can pick up an assault rifle.
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Postby birdman » Thu Jan 08, 2009 5:40 pm

So just let units that aren't heroes be able to fire at any enemy units they have LOS to (remember 2001 rules for LOS?) with no rotations or position changes after shooting is declared.
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Postby Theblackdog » Thu Jan 08, 2009 7:55 pm

IVhorseman wrote:
mithril wrote:i don't know, i've seen plenty of over-the-top action movies where in the span of a few seconds the hero uses a rapid fire pistol, rifle, or MG to shoot several targets seperated widely.


But not every minifigure is the hero. We need to remember that a good majority of the units you're using are going to be the generic soldier with a machinegun. Not everyone can be a hero, but anyone can pick up an assault rifle.


Movies do not equal real life. In real life, there's not much middle ground between "shoot one target with a fair chance of hitting" and "spray bullets wildly at a cluster of enemies and hope you get lucky". The reason for this is that the weapon's recoil is much greater when you're firing a whole clip in rapid succession, so it's much harder to keep the gun on target.

Also, NOT every minifig can be a hero. If they were, where would we get the cannon fodder for the actual Heroes to mow down in huge numbers?
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Postby mithril » Sun Jan 11, 2009 1:32 pm

so your going to apply "real life" to a game about tiny plastic men blowing the crud out of each other?

the key words are "playability" and "rule of cool". it's not a simulation game. it's a beer and pretzels game. so what if being able to autofire means two widely seperated targets can be shot at the same time. that is A) simple to play, and B) makes for a cool visual.
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Postby IVhorseman » Sun Jan 11, 2009 2:20 pm

mithril wrote:so your going to apply "real life" to a game about tiny plastic men blowing the crud out of each other?

the key words are "playability" and "rule of cool". it's not a simulation game. it's a beer and pretzels game. so what if being able to autofire means two widely seperated targets can be shot at the same time. that is A) simple to play, and B) makes for a cool visual.


In all honesty, the rule I set up is actually easier to play than shooting twice. You only need to make one die roll for skill, and one for damage, making the game flow way faster. Shooting twice takes twice that in both rolls AND time.
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Postby 501stCadians » Sun Jan 11, 2009 3:13 pm

Why not just use a 40k flamer template,put it over where you are shooting,and roll to hit,damage and armor? It's simple! I just happen to use 40 templates a lot...
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