Automatic fire!

Rules questions, suggestions, and discussion

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Postby IVhorseman » Sat Mar 01, 2008 4:35 pm

*CRAZYHORSE* wrote:this kind of stuff is what i like to see, easy and simple, but I think the guns could be a bit too strong how about a bigger penalty on the dice roll?


this is the biggest problem we've run into. minifigs dealing 300d6 damage just because their guns are automatic fire. trust me, as cool as this sounds, playtest after playtest has proven that this is NOT a good idea. so far, the most balanced versions of automatic fire i've seen add only a point or two of damage per shot.
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Postby *CRAZYHORSE* » Sat Mar 01, 2008 6:35 pm

IVhorseman wrote:
*CRAZYHORSE* wrote:this kind of stuff is what i like to see, easy and simple, but I think the guns could be a bit too strong how about a bigger penalty on the dice roll?


this is the biggest problem we've run into. minifigs dealing 300d6 damage just because their guns are automatic fire. trust me, as cool as this sounds, playtest after playtest has proven that this is NOT a good idea. so far, the most balanced versions of automatic fire i've seen add only a point or two of damage per shot.


Thats true but I don't want to use cones or my hand or an pencil and paper I want something simple and clear.
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Postby piltogg » Sat Mar 01, 2008 6:41 pm

why not just roll 4d6 whitch hits whatever the closest target is to the minnifig if you get a 5 or 6 multiple hits go on to the next closest target and ignore ammo entirely.
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Postby *CRAZYHORSE* » Sat Mar 01, 2008 6:49 pm

piltogg wrote:why not just roll 4d6 whitch hits whatever the closest target is to the minnifig if you get a 5 or 6 multiple hits go on to the next closest target and ignore ammo entirely.

1. roll 4d6 for what? targets it can hit? damage? skill roll for the UR? for what
2.I think 5 or 6 hits is kinda much but I'm might not getting what you meen by hits here.
3. I agree with the forget the ammo thing, that's total none sense.

well didn't this auto fire thing all start because it seems not logic that when there are 8 minifigs standing in A bunch and you shoot at it with your LMG you can just kill one guy at A time. so maybe we should not make up rules that are about the UR and CP and the damage of the gun if automatic but more about how much targets it can shoot in 1 turn IMO.
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Postby pesgores » Sat Mar 01, 2008 7:47 pm

Since the automatic fire weapons' bullets are almost everytimes smaller and weaker, lets put, let's say, -1 for the damage roll. Whaddya think?
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Postby IVhorseman » Sat Mar 01, 2008 7:55 pm

piltogg wrote:why not just roll 4d6 whitch hits whatever the closest target is to the minnifig if you get a 5 or 6 multiple hits go on to the next closest target and ignore ammo entirely.


because that's 5d6 damage which is far too much.

Crazyhorse, i'm not sure why you think these are complicated. billingsly's and blitzen's versions deal with no extra die rolls to determine damage, and no firing cone calculations other than checking how wide you can spread your fingers.

this may be where you're a little confused actually, with the fingercones. let me explain them to you: when your minifig is firing to cover lots of ground with bullets, the player will do what is called a fingercone to see how much ground is covered. at -2 to skill, hold up 2 fingers that are right next to eachother, and you cover everything in between the angle formed. -3 to skill for 3 fingers, -4 for 4, notice the correlation? minifigs in that cone that are hit regardless of the skill penalty take damage as normal.

EDIT: this is actually billingsly's ruleset version. Blitzen's is slightly different, but also uses fingercones to form angles of fire.

EDITED EDIT: also, don't worry about not understanding piltogg. none of us do, so we tend to ignore him/argue with him and lose.
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Postby piltogg » Sun Mar 02, 2008 12:18 pm

*CRAZYHORSE* wrote:
piltogg wrote:why not just roll 4d6 whitch hits whatever the closest target is to the minnifig if you get a 5 or 6 multiple hits go on to the next closest target and ignore ammo entirely.

1. roll 4d6 for what? targets it can hit? damage? skill roll for the UR? for what
2.I think 5 or 6 hits is kinda much but I'm might not getting what you meen by hits here.
3. I agree with the forget the ammo thing, that's total none sense.

well didn't this auto fire thing all start because it seems not logic that when there are 8 minifigs standing in A bunch and you shoot at it with your LMG you can just kill one guy at A time. so maybe we should not make up rules that are about the UR and CP and the damage of the gun if automatic but more about how much targets it can shoot in 1 turn IMO.


1: you roll 4d6 for the af wepon. it only hits enemy minnifigs

2:the most hits you can get is 4 because you will hit an enemy on a 5 or 6

3:ammo or clip size is never good to worry about.
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Postby Foggy » Sun Mar 02, 2008 12:33 pm

pesgores wrote:Since the automatic fire weapons' bullets are almost everytimes smaller and weaker, lets put, let's say, -1 for the damage roll. Whaddya think?

Yeah, and I think I can add on to that.

Roll your skill to see how many shots you fire.
Minifigs would fire some, Heroes would fire more, distribute the shots to whatever's in front of you and deal damage to the ones that hit.
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Postby IVhorseman » Sun Mar 02, 2008 12:54 pm

Foggy wrote:
pesgores wrote:Since the automatic fire weapons' bullets are almost everytimes smaller and weaker, lets put, let's say, -1 for the damage roll. Whaddya think?

Yeah, and I think I can add on to that.

Roll your skill to see how many shots you fire.
Minifigs would fire some, Heroes would fire more, distribute the shots to whatever's in front of you and deal damage to the ones that hit.


*facepalm* the two autofire systems that are currently in the lead do exactly this, but simpler. lurk moar.
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Postby Foggy » Sun Mar 02, 2008 12:58 pm

IVhorseman wrote:
Foggy wrote:
pesgores wrote:Since the automatic fire weapons' bullets are almost everytimes smaller and weaker, lets put, let's say, -1 for the damage roll. Whaddya think?

Yeah, and I think I can add on to that.

Roll your skill to see how many shots you fire.
Minifigs would fire some, Heroes would fire more, distribute the shots to whatever's in front of you and deal damage to the ones that hit.


*facepalm* the two autofire systems that are currently in the lead do exactly this, but simpler. lurk moar.

Then why do they take up pages of text to get the point across?
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Postby IVhorseman » Sun Mar 02, 2008 1:53 pm

they don't! the only reason this takes up 8 pages is people saying "WHAT ABOUT THIS HORRIBLE IDEA I HAVEN'T TESTED IT BUT IT SEEMS LIKE IT'S MAKE AUTOFIRE SUPER POWERFUL, LOL!!!" over and over and over again.

well that, and most of the rulesets haven't been condensed to a single post. billingsly's was, and blitzen's was, but needed a little clarification.
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Postby piltogg » Sun Mar 02, 2008 1:54 pm

don't forget the best one ... piltoggs
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Postby Foggy » Sun Mar 02, 2008 8:06 pm

...riiight.
I'll leave you to that.
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Postby *CRAZYHORSE* » Mon Mar 03, 2008 3:06 am

IVhorseman wrote:
piltogg wrote:why not just roll 4d6 whitch hits whatever the closest target is to the minnifig if you get a 5 or 6 multiple hits go on to the next closest target and ignore ammo entirely.


because that's 5d6 damage which is far too much.

Crazyhorse, i'm not sure why you think these are complicated. billingsly's and blitzen's versions deal with no extra die rolls to determine damage, and no firing cone calculations other than checking how wide you can spread your fingers.

this may be where you're a little confused actually, with the fingercones. let me explain them to you: when your minifig is firing to cover lots of ground with bullets, the player will do what is called a fingercone to see how much ground is covered. at -2 to skill, hold up 2 fingers that are right next to eachother, and you cover everything in between the angle formed. -3 to skill for 3 fingers, -4 for 4, notice the correlation? minifigs in that cone that are hit regardless of the skill penalty take damage as normal.

EDIT: this is actually billingsly's ruleset version. Blitzen's is slightly different, but also uses fingercones to form angles of fire.

EDITED EDIT: also, don't worry about not understanding piltogg. none of us do, so we tend to ignore him/argue with him and lose.

HAHAHAHAHAHA I didn't know it was that easy, well at first you look at almost a page of rule explanation and when I started to read them I kinda got lost in the text ( it's hard to be Dutch). this is actually really good and simple and clear OMG I can't believe how simple this is. thanks IVhorseman.

pesgores wrote:Since the automatic fire weapons' bullets are almost everytimes smaller and weaker, lets put, let's say, -1 for the damage roll. Whaddya think?
now i don't get why you think is that? weaker NO! smaller YES most of the time.
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Postby pesgores » Mon Mar 03, 2008 2:35 pm

*CRAZYHORSE* wrote:
IVhorseman wrote:
piltogg wrote:why not just roll 4d6 whitch hits whatever the closest target is to the minnifig if you get a 5 or 6 multiple hits go on to the next closest target and ignore ammo entirely.


because that's 5d6 damage which is far too much.

Crazyhorse, i'm not sure why you think these are complicated. billingsly's and blitzen's versions deal with no extra die rolls to determine damage, and no firing cone calculations other than checking how wide you can spread your fingers.

this may be where you're a little confused actually, with the fingercones. let me explain them to you: when your minifig is firing to cover lots of ground with bullets, the player will do what is called a fingercone to see how much ground is covered. at -2 to skill, hold up 2 fingers that are right next to eachother, and you cover everything in between the angle formed. -3 to skill for 3 fingers, -4 for 4, notice the correlation? minifigs in that cone that are hit regardless of the skill penalty take damage as normal.

EDIT: this is actually billingsly's ruleset version. Blitzen's is slightly different, but also uses fingercones to form angles of fire.

EDITED EDIT: also, don't worry about not understanding piltogg. none of us do, so we tend to ignore him/argue with him and lose.

HAHAHAHAHAHA I didn't know it was that easy, well at first you look at almost a page of rule explanation and when I started to read them I kinda got lost in the text ( it's hard to be Dutch). this is actually really good and simple and clear OMG I can't believe how simple this is. thanks IVhorseman.

pesgores wrote:Since the automatic fire weapons' bullets are almost everytimes smaller and weaker, lets put, let's say, -1 for the damage roll. Whaddya think?
now i don't get why you think is that? weaker NO! smaller YES most of the time.


Well, when i play GTA, smaller automatic weapons need to be shoot dozens of times to kill someone. I forgot that. Redoing:

Short-Range Weapons: roll 1d6 for shots fired, not forgetting critical successes, and do damage just normally (1d6)
Long-Range Weapons: roll 1d6 for shots fired and, if it scores 4, 5 or 6, roll again, and do damage just normally (2d6 i think)

I think now it is done.
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